Regarding BIG 12 expansion

[Ute Bc]

I hope this doesn’t happen but I think it makes some sense.  If I’m Larry Scott I would try to poach Texas and Oklahoma again.  It would essentially eliminate an entire conference from competition.  That would make the next PAC 14 TV deal worth a ton of money and essentially make the Big a Mountain West II

[ironman1315]

Not only that but it would almost guarantee a deal with directv. Further, it would give all the Pac-12 a solid foothold in Texas and Oklahoma. I say it’s time to go a poachin’.

[Utahute72]

This was a interesting article linked on another site. Probably the best summary of what’s happening today.

http://www.outkickthecoverage.com/big-12-auctions-off-league-membership-for-big-money-072016

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by Utahute72.

[Ute Bc]

So that link doesn’t work for me…

[Utahute72]

See if that works.

[Anonymous]

Larry Scott doesn’t seem to have much power anymore. I figure he gets replaced in two years. I also don’t think some of the schools want to make the conference even tougher. With long travel to the Midwest this just means potential injuries to players.

For USC I kind of feel like they would enjoy having Texas but at the same time enjoy the superstar status in PAC. They definitely don’t fear playing anyone and everyone but I just wonder if they would like the image competition.

I also think BYU to the big 12 is a good thing for the state. It makes BYU accountable to a REAL conference again. It would hurt Utah’s instate recruiting I believe. Especially because Sitake and Whitt have similar circles. Those games we are pretty much forced to play actually mean something rather than playing a withering independent.

Just my ramblings.

[89ute]

Texas gov. Gregg Abbott and Texas University president Gregory Fenves are tweeting support for Houston. I can’t see the big 12 breaking up. Yet anyway.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by 89ute.

[Anonymous]

Teams in the PAC I think that would oppose this: (unless the money is sort of upfront promised by a new tv deal.)

Colorado doesn’t care for Texas and probably never wants to return to the Big 12. They are already the bottom feeder of the conference this doesn’t help their rebuild at all.

Pretty much every school in the PAC North. They already begrudge the loss of access in playing games in Southern Cal. Adding another travel destination of Ok or Tex.  PAC north feels California is their main recruiting area.  Maybe this opens up Texas for them but I think they prefer being a Pacific coast league.

Utah would probably be neutral and side with whatever side is the strongest. UCLA will probably side with whatever USC wants.

ASU and Zona would be the most in favor of adding those schools and I think USC leans this direction as well.

I like the PAC 12 as it is and I think Super Conferences is going to ruin college football for me.  I pretty much only follow Utah football anyways because that is all I have time for.  But I wouldn’t watch any other games ever.  NFL is far more enjoyable because of all the players and the day on which it is played.

[Ute Bc]

I disagree.  First, where do you get the teams in the North don’t like going to California and Arizona?

Texas really isn’t that much further in terms of flight time.

Most think we are headed to 4 super conferences anyways – this just hurries that along.

Finally, it is ALL about the money.  I can guarantee you that the TV deal for the conference I described would be monstrous.

 

[Anonymous]

Ok I agree with all of that. But my point on the PAC north isn’t what you said. They begrudge the loss of playing UCLA and USC. So don’t see where you thought I said that.

 

Yes money trumps all because making ridiculous amounts of money off of Football players isn’t enough.

[CincyUte]

It would be interesting to see how they divided up the divisions if the Pac took TX and OK and went to 14.  Keep the west coast teams together and put UT, CO, AS and AZ with TX and OK?  I guess you’d have to then split up the LA schools to even out the divisions??  If so, then the OR and WA schools would end up with an LA school in their division…which would mean more time in So Cal than they have now…not less.

Just thinking out loud here.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CincyUte.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CincyUte.

[Anonymous]

I just wonder if they ditch the split conference model all together and do like a “weave” model or something.  That would be the easiest though and seem to appease the North teams BUT splitting up USC and UCLA would screw with an UBER tradition.   It is hard to work around for sure.  Red River classic to keep intact etc.

EDIT:
Super conferences means the death of most of the best things in college football. Rivalries specifically I am one of those ones that don’t miss playing BYU at all. But you can see it upsets enough people when the Utah legislature gets involved.

[CincyUte]

I dunno. You’d still have them (USC and UCLA) play each other every year (just like they currently play Cal and Stanford every year).

I think I’d be in favor of a weave. But the Big 10 took that approach a few years ago and it didn’t work. I’m pretty sure they’re back to an east-west model now.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CincyUte.

[Anonymous]

USC has so many scheduling accommodations to make. Same with Stanford. You have to keep Civil war going up in the north. The Apple Cup….I just see this all as Utah and Colorado getting the short end of the stick. I know Super conferences is inevitable but I don’t like it and I just wish as a fan, Utah could enjoy 30 years of glutting themselves on the PAC12.

This makes me hate the Zona schools so much more for how lucky they have been all of these years.

[leftyjace]

True… it wouldn’t be easy… but it would be worth it! 🙂

[kazute]

CincyUte, are you still trolling Cougarboard with “insider” information on Big-12 expansion?

[CincyUte]

If BYU ever gets a Big XII invite, I hope DSMoriarty logs onto cougarboard just to say “see, I told you so.”

[UteBulldog]

I saw several big 12 fans on Twitter after the announcement of possible expansion that were really disappointed/p**sed about the possible candidates. The big 12 might stand to gain a ton of cash for existing members (while new members get the shaft) but they are about to become a joke among the other P5 conferences.

I still wouldn’t be surprised to see this all be some type of a play for more money and a conference channel without expansion.

[89ute]

The jist I’m getting is the Big 12 contract is such that each team that comes aboard will result in an extra 25 mill per year paid by espn. That sounds stupid so I’m sure there is something I don’t understand but I’m not willing to pour a few hours into researching it. So theoretically, you add 4 s**t teams and the conference gets an extra 100 million a year from espn until the contract expires. I’m not sure if espn is where the money comes from, it could be a few networks for all I know. You then only give the new teams a very small amount as some sort of “pay in” and then you blow the conference up in 20-whatever the end date is.

[UteBulldog]

That is how I understand it as well, which makes me believe it will come down to a reverse auction between the candidates to see which ones will except the least amount of money until the current deal is up. Will byu’s ego allow them to be one of these teams?

[CincyUte]

If I’m Cincinnati, Houston, Memphis, etc…I’d be prepared to offer a Grant of Rights to the Big XII (even though the current Big XII members haven’t themselves entered into such an agreement).

Having said that…do you think a GOR is something BYU can offer?

[CincyUte]

That’s an interesting theory (“this is all some type of a play for more money…without expansion”).  I hadn’t thought of that, but it does kinda make sense.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CincyUte.
• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by CincyUte.

[Puget Ute]

BYU seemingly can’t/won’t do a Grant of Rights, because they historically want to keep the rebroadcast rights so they can show/stream games in byutv.

I am completely ambivalent about BYU going to the Big 12. They will have some big opponents and will forced to sink or swim on their own strengths.

But I do know that if PAC-12 picks up UT and OU, that we will get screwed. We will get tossed into a group with CU, AZ, ASU, UT, and OU, and we will only rarely travel to Cali and the PNW.

[89ute]

Thinking about teams the Big 12 could take, if the take UCF and USF that could have some impact on our Florida recruiting. Like Southern California, once a kid realizes they’re not going to play for UF, FSU or Miami, they then probably look to us. I know we beat out Miami for Zach Moss and probably a few others, but with UCF and USF getting called up to the bigs it certainly isn’t going to make Florida recruiting easier.

On the flip side, any team invited to the Big 12 not named BYU is a good thing.

[leftyjace]

I don’t understand the angst of BYU possibly getting a B12 Invite.

1. Two P5 schools in the State of Utah, whereas a lot of States would only have 1 or 0
2. We’d schedule them less
3. People would COME to Utah to take part in the Rivalry and beat the crap out of BYU if BYU got more national exposure and made fools of themselves some more (like they always do)
4. Good for the economy of Utah
5. We’d continue to kick their trash whenever we played them, them being P5 wouldn’t make a difference because their non-LDS recruiting will STILL suck
6. BYU would languish in the lower third of the B12

I dunno. I realize there are reasons that people don’t want BYU to succeed, but I don’t see it as being all bad for Utah.

[89ute]

Here’s my angst. BYU is a business rival and a media rival. We would benefit greatly if we had their donors in addition to ours.

When I flip on the radio or local TV news, I want to hear about Pac-12 sports and Pac-12 issues.

If BYU becomes P5 we will have come full circle, but this time around it’s the steroid version of what we just put behind us.

Utah is an incredible institution and I feel the statewide support for the institution is very much less than incredible. I would like to see our legislature, media and population take the attitude that Utah is nipping at the heels of the California schools and put together a concerted effort to push us closer toward equal footing. Pulling BYU along is hampering this process.

[CincyUte]

Right. It’s pretty impossible to thrive when a large chunk of your local market passionately cheers against you. The more irrelevant BYU becomes, the more local support will go Utah’s way.

[leftyjace]

OK, I can understand that perspective. Thank you for explaining. I agree with some of your points, to be sure.

[89ute]

Now Texas Tech just professed their love for Houston.

Jake Trotter
ESPN Staff Writer

Texas Tech issues statement on Houston’s Big 12 candidacy: “As the Big 12 evaluates its options for expansion, Texas Tech welcomes the consideration of the University of Houston. We have always valued our partnerships with UH.” – Dr. Lawrence Schovanec, Texas Tech’s incoming president

So far, Texas Governor, Lieutenant Governor, Texas University President and now TT’s incoming president all crying for Houston.

This is going to be quite a show.

[CincyUte]

Someone need to go over to cougarboard and ask why their BFF Texas isn’t vocally advocating to add BYU too.

[UteBulldog]

Dan Wolkin

Well this is interesting.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by UteBulldog.

[UteBulldog]

So here is my hang up with that team in blue getting into the BIGXII. ESPN already owns the rights to any of that one teams games they want at somewhere between 3 and 7 mil a year (I guess around 4), so why would ESPN now pay the BigXII $25 mil to add them. I think they are a bargaining chip (one of many) for Texas to get more money and ESPN will find a way to pay the BigXII (Texas) more cash without breaking the bank (Especially for football only) for teams like tds and some of the other contenders.

My guess is they add Houston and Cincy to get to 12.

• This reply was modified 7 years, 9 months ago by UteBulldog.

[jrj84105]

I wish the PAC wold bend over backwards to end the BigXII. Texas isn’t bad, they just don’t belong in a conventional conference. UT wants to split their schedule between national brands and Local Fluff, and they really don’t care much about strong regional brands. Which is why all the strong regional brands left the BigXII when they could. Whereas the PAC, ACC, SEC, and B1G are aggregates of mostly regional peers with a few national brands thrown in, and everybody likes it that way. So the PAC needs UT to hit key revenue thresholds, but UT should ‘t be forced into the standard conference mold.

The solution: PAC adds UT, OU, and KU.
PAC8 Division: Original 8.
PAC6 Division: AZ, ASU, UU, CU, KU, OU.
Affiliate: UT.

This is a 10 conference game schedule for all but UT.
PAC8 plays 7 division games plus 3 cross division.
PAC6 plays 5 division games plus 4 cross division plus UT.
UT plays 6 conference games against the PAC6 and 6 OOC.

Utah would play AZ, ASU, CU, KU, OU, UT annually plus every PAC8 school every other year.
4 Year Schedule:
1) AZ, @ASU, CU, @KU, OU, @UT, UCLA, @Cal, OU, @WSU.
2) @AZ, ASU, @CU, KU, @OU, UT, @UCLA, Cal, @OU, WSU.
3) AZ, @ASU, CU, @KU, OU, @UT, USC, @Furd, OSU, @UW.
4) @AZ, ASU, @CU, KU, @OU, UT, @USC, Furd, @OSU, UW.

[89ute]

I appreciate the time, effort and thought that went into your post. I’d hate to see the Pac-12 change in any way.

After going through Jon Wilner’s blog, where he as posted a few separate entries which came from a pretty extensive interview with Larry Scott. The Pac has no interest in expanding, the presidents and chancellors are not concerned about the current 20MM revenue gap and are entrenched in playing the long game with regard to the Pac-12 nets. They are content owning their own media company and enjoy the increasing valuation of such. They think the future windfall is worth waiting for.

In my opinion, the Big 12 will add Cinncinatti and Houston, the playoff will be expanded to 8 and the P5 will be locked up for the foreseeable eternity.

[Utahute72]

I think the decision between adding 4 and 2 depends on whether or not they can get both Fla. schools to come on board (and at a cheaper price). While it probably makes little difference in the short term, providing two major TV markets will soften the blow to their media partners making a re-negotiation easier down the road.