Are the Jazz really that good?

[ProudUte]

I sometimes wonder with odd losses to Atlanta and Boston recently.  However, I heard last night that we are on the best 32 game span ever in the history of the franchise.  We are 27-5 over the last 32 games.  None of the Stockton and Malone teams ever did that.  Every NBA team blows games from time to time, so are the losses to Atlanta and Boston one-offs?

I have to admit the record over the last 32 games is amazing.  It is actually quite stunning that a team that was something like 19-28 could come back and still possibly get the 3rd or 4th seed.  But, I just don’t know about these guys and if they can do it in the playoffs.  

On a side note, my favorite player has become Ingles.  He simply does whatever the team needs him to do that night.

 

[bopahull]

The Stock and Malone  Jazz had 2 occasions of 26 and 5 and one stretch of 29 and 3 during there golden times. According to the KJZZ broadcast last night.

[Utah]

1- we’ve never had a player like Rudy Gobert. Go look at our record since he has come back and without him. He’s is as good as Harden and Curry, but on the defensive side of the court. And he’s better offensively than Curry or Harden are defensively. He’s a top 5 player, maybe top 3.

We fawn over Mitchell, but Gobert is our team.

2- I don’t know if we’ve ever had a player like Mitchell. I don’t know if weve ever had a player we’ve asked to carry us on one side of the court that can do it so well. Malone had Stockton. Mitchell has no one.

As far as Boston and Atlanta go, can’t we let a young team be young sometimes? This is Gobert’s first year as the team being his. It’s Mitchell’s first year. Sometimes young players relax. And if you relax, you will lose.

Its exciting. We are really good.

Its too bad Hayward left. We’d be amazing with Hayward. We need three things to compete for a title:

1- Gobert to stay healthy.

2- Mitchell to become more efficient. He’s is amazing. But his potential is hall of famer or Tyreke Evans. As good as he is, if we are to become great, he needs to get better offensively, which sounds silly to say, but his ceiling is so high. And there is room to improve. It’s crazy.

3- We need to get Mitchell help. He needs another wing scorer. A Hayward type player would be perfect. Stupid Hayward. Stupid Dennis Lindsay for not maxing Hayward three years ago.

[Anonymous]

They’re not that young. Only Mitchell and to a lesser extent O’Neal are young (good case for Exum too). Gobert, Ingles, Rubio, Crowder…these aren’t kids.

[Utah]

So, your best player, your highest usage player, your only player that can do any sort of offense by himself is a rookie. I don’t care how old the rest of you are, if you take Gobert or Mitchell off this team you are a bottom three team. 

So, let me restate for you: 

Your second best player is young. The rest of your team sucks. 

When that young player takes a night off, that player that your whole offense relies on, you are going to suck. 

[EagleMountainUte]

Ingles is the second best three point shooter in the nba I believe. The rest of the team doesn’t suck. Favors also was one of the top 30 best players and has fallen into a role for the betterment of the team.

I would say their offense is more team oriented and wears you down. When you play the Jazz you expect to face the team with the number one amount of PASSES and SCREENS. They are also third in or second in handoffs. That wears down teams and it is why in the fourth quarter the Jazz as a team score so many points. They are one of the best in the fourth. The Jazz offense compliments the Jazz defense perfectly. 

[Rick]

Three years ago Hayward wasn’t worth max money.  You pay on potential, you will likely get an Andrei Kirilenko scenario.

[Utah]

While usually I agree, you are wrong here. Hayward’s contract came up the year before the salary cap jumped. Everyone KNEW the salary cap was going to jump. Everyone KNEW that the max deal Hayward was going to sign to would be equivalent to a middle of the road player (he made 16 million, roughly what Rubio makes). 

It made ZERO sense to not max him out. Especially knowing the cap was going to jump and you’d be paying him peanuts if he panned out. 

If DL would have maxed him out, he’d make 17 million this year. Less than Gobert. 

So, while I usually agree with your philosophy, the cap situation makes your philosophy garbage this time around and the Jazz have paid dearly for it. 

[EagleMountainUte]

I disagree Jazz being better with Hayward. Hayward took shots away from Ingles and the development of Mitchell. Getting rid of Hood and a healthy Gobert are certainly the main factors in the team success. 

Locke talked about it on the radio. Would you rather have ELITE defense with average to above average offense or Elite offense with average to above average defense?  I prefer the Jazz to elite offense. With Mitchell they will get better and he will get more calls as he gets a reputation. 

[Utah]

Hayward is a better defender than O’Neal or Ingles. 

Hayward is a better offensive player than either of those two. 

Hayward has never done anything to show that he is a “me” type player. He wants to win. He has never been a bad teammate. He has done nothing to show that he would take shots away Mitchell or would hold Mitchell back in any way. 

In fact, he has done the opposite. He signed with a team with a better chance at winning, knowing that he would be playing with Thomas, a ball hog. He valued winning over his own persnal stats. 

So, I don’t buy that the Jazz wouldn’t be better with a better player starting and Ingles coming off the bench. 

Your second question is not a good one. GS has dominated the NBA with an elite offense and above average defense. I’d take that, because that is proven. 

In the playoffs, the Jazz still need another offensive player. We will struggle against the top tier teams (Toronto, Cleveland, Houston, GS) because they will shut down Mitchell and we will have nothing else. Doesn’t matter how good your defense is, if you can’t score you can’t win. 

And in the NBA, if you have two or more scorers with defense, you usually win. 

Utah Jazz with Mitchell and Hayward and Gobert are as good as anybody. Without Hayward, we are almost as good, just missing a Hayward. You don’t have to like Hayward, but to say that we are better off without him is just a lie and silly. 

[EagleMountainUte]

Well all of the experts disagree with you. Ingles has benefited the most from Hayward leaving and Hood was also a contributor to that. Second player was Mitchell you forget why Mitchell even started to play and get regular minutes this season. Snyder wanted a fast quick second unit player off the bench that was going to Mitchell. Before they even knew what they had in Mitchell he was a two way player that was expected to defend. Leaving Hayward on the team with Hood Ingles never slides into the role he has filled and Hood is never traded because they stay the course. 

Another factor is the Sefolosha injury which you can’t overlook. Jazz went into develop Mitchell no matter what it costs to the wins.  And it cost them some losses. 

[bopahull]

It was Hayward that left Utah, not the other way around. He is a fine player and apparently a good teammate. He no longer wished to play here for whatever reasons of his own.

Have you happened to notice a point guard named  Rubio? He and Mitchell are chalenging Portlands pair of guards for scoring.

The Jazz have a solid defensive and offensive team. Since they started this hot play in January, they are the top defense and #3offense in the NBA. 

[noneyadb]

Hayward’s a puss. Glad he’s gone, and yes Utah is WAYYYYYY better off without him. To say Jazz would have been better off with him is very shortsighted. 

They would of had less flexibility at free agency, and in a very difficult spot this off-season with Favors, and Exum contracts coming up. Now they have the money to sign both players to good contracts keep their depth and compete for a championship. Something keeping Hayward would never have allowed them to do.

[EagleMountainUte]

He was leaving when Stevens was hired by Boston.  Two years ago at least is what everyone has been saying.  Jazz could have made a Stayward Ford Dealership and he would have left. I really do believe the Jazz dodged a second Kirilenko with him not signing.  I just don’t think his heart would have been here.  

Now Mitchell is a very smart and well spoken kid.  He is saying all the right things but who knows anymore. I love the guy right now and I am going to enjoy it while it lasts.  Getting Favors signed is a big goal and also Exum for years over money would be the optimal goal.  You have to make Gobert and Mitchell happy somehow maybe snagging a free agent somewhere.  

[EagleMountainUte]

I am a guy not on Exum’s side really before he came back from injury but the dude is soo raw. He is an unbelievable piece to the backcourt and with Rubio it is all gravy. I actually like Exum for that Hayward role you want. He is long and can defend up to the three spot. Lindsey has done such a damn fine job assembling this team.  

[Utah]

I think Exum could be that guy as well. 

I do think that Lindsey has done a really good job assembling this team. It’s so hard to grade him though. Gobert was an amazing pick. So was Mitchell. There was a lot of luck in both, but hell, there is a lot of luck in every pick. What happens if Portland ever becomes competant in their picks? No Durrant in OKC or Jordan in Chicago. So, tough to lower Lindsey’s grade when he has a little luck when every GM has that. 

So, you’d have to give him an “A” for what he has done except for one thing. And that one thing is a COLLOSAL mistake. Not signing Hayward to a max deal was just dumb, for reasons outlined above. You knew AT WORST, Hayward would be a Joe Ingles/Ricky Rubio complimentary type player. And maxing him out would pay him that range. Hell, you could have Joe for 14 million this year and Gordon for 17-18. 

That mistake may have cost Utah a finals trip. That mistake prevents him from getting an “A” grade. 

[EagleMountainUte]

We are never going to agree on the Hayward deal but I think they got lucky with it happening the way it did. You can’t rewrite the narrative on this season. Jazz don’t move to Mitchell is my opinion and it moot because it is all WHAT IFS.  

[noneyadb]

Mitchell’s good enough he would have made his way on the court irregardless of what happened with Hayward.

[EagleMountainUte]

They have talked about that a lot on 1280.  It is hard to trust the goons on 1280 but I believe Thurl and Boone.  They both said the same thing about him Jazz had no idea he was this good.  They were hoping he would be what Exum is doing now. A fast paced punch off the bench that gives you maybe 19-20 minutes a night. 

[noneyadb]

They knew he was going to be special. Lyndsey went on record threatening everybody’s job if his workout information was leaked. They absolutely loved him.

[EagleMountainUte]

Well Snyder must not have his minutes didn’t climb until several other things fell into place. Just the way I see it. 

[Ute Bc]

What was odd about the loss to the Celtics?  They have the 2nd best record in the East ahead of Clevland.  I don’t think we are a better team than the Celtics – BUT the Jazz are damn good.

[Anonymous]

Yes they are that good, or they can be. The Atlanta loss was inexcusable. The Boston loss was inexcusable. With so much riding on those games they should have been locked in. when they are focused they can beat any team. When they’re lazy they can lose to a tanking eastern team, at home.

[Ute Bc]

That’s pretty absurd.  Just because a team wins on a given night doesn’t mean they are the better team.  By that logic, the Jazz are better than the Warriors.

You also have to take into account that other teams are sometimes having an off night and sometimes playing above their ability.

[Anonymous]

It’s not absurd at all. Four of Boston starters sat out that game. Atlanta is tanking. Those losses are inexcusable. Don’t believe me? Ask Snyder, ask Mitchell. They’ll tell you the same thing.

[EagleMountainUte]

I agree they lose focus but I understand why they loss.  I would say the Houston and getting blown out by Portland after the break hurt the most. Houston they had it right there and blew it. Portland they didn’t even show up. It is the one outlier in the statistics for the defense. 

[EagleMountainUte]

I want to know what team was soundly out of the playoffs and turned it around so dramatically in NBA history. It just feels unprecendeted that is the amazing and fun thing to watch. 

[Utah]

Rudy Gobert. The dude is special. Top 5 NBA player. 

[EagleMountainUte]

I know I agree just wondering if another team has replicated it. 

[noneyadb]

2004, Utah was Predicted to be the worst team in NBA. Sloan had them battling for a playoff spot. Finished 42-40

[Mr Chainsaw]

It’s amazing what a team that plays team bball can do.  I think Snyder is an overlooked component here.  COTY in my mind

[Utah5410]

Royce O Neal is a better on ball defender than hayward.

[noneyadb]

Their schedule has been extremely soft the last 3 months during that stretch. Are they good? Sure, but they’re riding a lot of hype from the easy schedule.