Donovan Mitchell

[Anonymous]

Is he better, as a rookie, than Michael Jordan was, as a rookie?

[EagleMountainUte]

No and statistics prove it. I think the only one Mitchell is better than Jordan in is the 3PFG%. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html

 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html

 

I will say this Jordan had a much worst team his first season so they needed him more. His minutes and attempts show that. 

[ironman1315]

IDK about better. But damn, can he fly. And hang.

This is the greatest photo ever taken pic.twitter.com/QR5AqZMQ8D

— James Hansen (@hansenjames) March 16, 2018

Donovan Mitchell was feeling Jordanesque 🔥 pic.twitter.com/IohYNNKkCT

— SportsCenter (@SportsCenter) March 16, 2018

[EagleMountainUte]

Regular season is regular season. He is already one of the best looking rookies for awhile. It will be playoffs where he needs to make a legacy. Jordan had to contend with the Pistons his first couple seasons. Jazz are more like the Pistons than Jordan’s Bulls. 

Jazz set the most screens in the NBA it is essentially the NBA equivalent of smash mouth Football. This was something  Boone and Locke were talking about on the Radio last night. They just exhaust teams by the fourth they are one of the top scoring teams in that quarter.  

[Anonymous]

He handles the ball. He rebounds. He defends. He can score from anywhere. Hell, he swished a 40 footer as the shot clock ran out. I’m putting him in the group of all-time great rookies. I can’t wait to see how he develops from here.

[EagleMountainUte]

I think I can safely say best since AI. Which is still an unbelievable comparison. I really want them to make the playoffs and see where he stacks up when teams scheme for him. 

[Anonymous]

He’s already better than Iverson. Remember that he plays in the West, a much better conference than the East.

[EagleMountainUte]

Well there have been some great rookies since AI. Eyeball test for me seems like AI for me. He needs to stay driven and realize you can’t slack up to be the best. 

[GameForAnyFuss]

[EagleMountainUte]

AI was one of the best on court players with the ball in his hands.  Pure scorer if he wasn’t dumber than a bag of bricks in his personal life he would have been the greatest PG of all time. 

 

[Anonymous]

That’s what I didn’t like about iverson, he had to have the ball. When he didn’t have it he was just another guy. Donovan sets screens, moves, follows, in addition to scoring and assisting. Plus, he can score from anywhere, over anyone, and he gets every teammate involved. He makes everybody better. Just ask Rudy, Ricky and Joe.

[EagleMountainUte]

That is my biggest dig on him as well and why I wouldn’t put him on my first or second all NBA fantasy “Dream” team at PG. Yet I would say no matter who is defending him across all eras he would score. 

[chinngiskhaan]

yeah… and when he did have it, he was the best player in the NBA.

 

I’m not a big fan of iverson’s… but the dude is one of the reasons the NBA is the way it is today. Before him, getting crossed up wasn’t really even a thing in the NBA. He made long shorts cool. He made cornrows, tattoos, headbands, arm sleees, and even those stupid finger sleeves cool (and I am speaking in the context of the NBA, not the world as a whole, obviously, cornrows and tattoos were a thing before him, but they weren’t that commonplace until he came around).

Again, I don’t even like the guy, but if he was Mitchell’s size he would have been the best player in NBA history. He wasn’t that far off from averaging a triple double as a rookie, and he was like 5 ft 9 or 5 ft 10. ImagineYes, he isn’t even close to Mitchell’s size, so that doesn’t matter.

and Iverson’s teams, including the one that made the finals, were terrible. Like worst team in the league if you remove him kind of terrible.

The best player he ever had on his Sixers teams was either larry hughes, or a washed up Tony Kukoc. 

Mitchell may be an all time great, I’m not saying he won’t, and I never said he wouldn’t be. I never said anything negative about mitchell whatsoever. That being said, Mitchell wouldn’t be anywhere near as efficient as Iverson was scoring/passing on Iverson’s team of that year, in that time of NBA basketball. They played a much much much more physical game back then. Defenders were allowed to hand check, grab, pull, push, and do just about anything so long as it wasn’t done to MJ. I will say that Mitchell would have been successful in that era as well, but not like Iverson was.

 

I don’t knwo why I’m arguing about AI, I hated him growing up, but he was very very good. Mitchell didn’t even make the all-star game.

[EagleMountainUte]

Mitchell did make the All star I can’t decide if you are being a troll or willfully ignorant. 

I choose not to explain it all to you but just trust me in saying he did. 

[chinngiskhaan]

LOL… are you that big of a homer?

 

Better than ALLEN IVERSON????????????

 

No he is not, not even close. Unless of course you are talking about their rookie seasons… and still, Donovan is not as good as AI… AI averages more points, double the assists, and nearly double the steals too. Hell, even though he was way smaller than Donovan, he averaged more rebounds per game. 

 

Lets not be ridiculous fellas. Mitchell is good, but he ain’t all time good yet. He may get there, but he isn’t there yet.

[EagleMountainUte]

I am not saying he is there and I didn’t say he was better than AI.  But his rookie season has been very impressive and better than AI in other measurables.  AI’s rookie season reminds me of Mitchell in a lot of ways.  Many of his abilities in that time frame are very similar.  Mitchell also less FG attempts per game but averages a better percentage. Averages less free throws per game.  I am just measuring ROOKIE seasons BTW.  Measuring an MVP career against a rookie in Mitchell isn’t fair.  There are also other stats that Mitchell has been able to do that match or exceed AI and rookies since that time frame.  Many stats that have been HELD by the greats in the game.  

Mitchell has had one of the most impressive ROOKIE seasons since AI. Yes easy to say that. 

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/i/iversal01.html

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mitchdo01.html

[chinngiskhaan]

of course it has. Mitchell is a really good rookie. He MAY end up being an all time great, but that is not even close to guaranteed at this point.

[chinngiskhaan]

safely say he’s the best rookie since AI?

ummm. you realize Tim Duncan was drafted the year after AI right? Come on guys, you sound ridiculous.

[DieHardUtahUtesFan]

If we’re going to compare him to the greats I’d rather do it by age than by rookie year. He compares favorably to Kobe at the age of 21, except that he shares the ball.

[chinngiskhaan]

when you go by age… Ummmmmmm… Lebron averaged 31 points a game as a 21 year old, nuff said.

Stop trying to compare him to greats of the past. The league is completely different than it ever has been.

Yes the west is better than the east, but AI played on a horrific team his rookie year. He was the only decent player, and he did what he did his rookie year despite his small stature.

The West is good this year, but it is incredibly top heavy, there are 3 great/good teams, the rest are hardly better than the east. Plus the west has the suns, and they are absolutely hot garbage this year. GS is historyically good, Houston is excellent, the thunder are pretty good… as are the blazers… the rest of the west is mediocre, including the Jazz. The west is 1 team deeper than the east. The east has the raptors, currently the best team in basketball, the celtics, and the caveliers, who are on par with the thunder. The bucks and pacers are pretty solid as well.

So yeah, the west is better, but not by a whole lot, and back when AI played, there were some very good teams in the east.

[EagleMountainUte]

Jazz are mediocre? Since January 24th they are one of the best teams.  The only teams they have lost to Houston and Trailblazers.  Teams they have beaten in that span?  Very good teams including the ones you think are better. 

 

[ironman1315]

Dudes angry that the suns player air balled a dunk. 😜

[chinngiskhaan]

yeah… SOOOOOOOOOO angry about something I knew nothing about until just now. I don’t even know who accomplished such an astounding feat.

 

I’m a Pacers fan, but whatever. And yes, the Pacers are also mediocre… and yes, the pacers aren’t going anywhere meaningful anytime soon either. I know. 

[ironman1315]

So do you enjoy being a giant dick all the time? Seriously, I cracked a minor joke and you decided to jump down my throat. Of course, since your team got punked by the Jazz during their present streak I can see why you’re upset.

[EagleMountainUte]

Well easy defense to that is mediocre.  They are mediocre.  This is mediocre.  I’m mediocre. EVERYTHING IS MEDIOCRE!!!!

[chinngiskhaan]

I’m not being a giant dick… Your “joke” was just stupid, and had nothing to do with me whatsoever.

[ironman1315]

You’ve been a giant dick this entire thread, Chin That was just the example directed at me. Again, sorry the current Jazz streak had to include a 20 point drubbing of your team. It seems to have made you bitter.

[chinngiskhaan]

yeah… they are 7th in the west. Barely a playoff team in a watered down NBA.

 

They are 39-30… that is mediocre. would you prefer the word decent? They basically mean the same thing, but whatever.

 

The Jazz are not that good, they won’t go anywhere meaningful in the playoffs this year, or next year, or the year after that.

[EagleMountainUte]

Mediocre this mediocre that.  Really your ignorance is showing on the current season the Jazz have had.  39-30 with injuries to starters.  

[chinngiskhaan]

igloodweller

What are you 12? did you even see AI play. I didn’t care for him much, but he was an all-time great.

He scored more, and got more assists, in an NBA where points were much harder to come by.

Ever heard of hand checking? Yeah, they don’t allow that in today’s NBA.

[EagleMountainUte]

I am just going to go out on a limb and say you don’t know a lot about the Jazz or Mitchell. The reason being that he is being compared to greats is because he is breaking certain measurables that the greats set when they were rookies.  That is why people talk with him because he broke Jordan’s this when he was a rookie.  He broke the amount of 20+ ppg in a rookie season over other great players their rookie years. Lebron compared him to Dwayne Wade. Mitchell broke a 58 year old record set by Wilt in his rookie season. Mitchell dropped 40 points twice in a game. 

http://www.espn.com/video/clip?id=21850270

I will agree it is unfair to compare him to MVP’s and especially to the GOAT.  Mitchell is playing on a team though and the ball isn’t going through him.  When he wants to he takes over games and has done it against great teams. 

Jazz went from not even going to make the playoffs at all in preseason to 7th or potentially as high as 3rd.  At their current pace of play 3rd isn’t crazy to say either.  

[Anonymous]

I am significantly older than 12. I remember iverson’s career. I think you have to look beyond statistics and evaluate his game. Mitchell has more pieces around him than Jordan or iverson had as rookies. He’s not the primary ball handler or rebounder, but he’s become the most reliable scorer.

Magic didn’t have huge stats as a rookie because he had so much talent around him. When the season began Mitchell wasn’t in the role he is now. Since he’s assumed the leadership role, one that he earned with his performance, the Jazz have been on a tear. They’re currently on a 24-2 streak with wins over top teams and are threatening the road win streak all-time record.

And yes, I’m talking about rookie years for all the players mentioned. It’s all we have to compare with Mitchell.

[EagleMountainUte]

Rodney Hood was what delayed Mitchell’s development. Jazz had this hope that he would explode into consistency. Hood is probably one of the most overrated players I have ever seen in a Jazz uniform. 

[Anonymous]

Hood is injury prone. He’s almost Boozer-esque in that regard.

[chinngiskhaan]

Is mitchell having a far better surrounding cast somehow supposed to make it harder for him??? I mean, I can see him having less rebounds simply because Gobert, but Mitchell has the best 3 point shooter in the NBA on his team,as well as a very talented center

I don’t know, compare all you want, just know that to an objective outsider, someone who likes the jazz, and follows them, but doesn’t care if they do well or not… you sound like a homer.

[EagleMountainUte]

You don’t follow them you are acting completely ignorant of the facts or willfully negative towards Mitchell. 

[Anonymous]

It’s obvious to anyone watching that he could score every single time he touches the ball. However, he gets everyone involved. There’s more to being the best than long shorts, tattoos and cornrows.

[EagleMountainUte]

This dude is a troll right?  He said above Mitchell didn’t make the All star team as well. I can’t continue to discuss things when he is so ignorant of obvious facts. 

[chinngiskhaan]

ignorant of obvious facts? Which “obvious fact” did I get wrong?

Was Mitchell an all-star this year? Are the Jazz not 39-30? Did AI not average more points, rebounds, assists, and steals than Mitchell as a rookie? Pretty sure those are the only FACTS that I have brought up. None of those are wrong by the way.

Sorry if me believing that the Jazz are mediocre upset your tender feelings. I would love nothing more than to see the Jazz and Pacers playing each other in the finals (in all seriousness). However, we all know that neither of these teams is making it there any time soon. The Jazz will not beat GS or Houston. The Pacers have an easier road, but are further behind in the talent department. It’s not happening for either team.

[Anonymous]

I don’t know, maybe you’re under contract or something, but is it absolutely necessary to be a dickhole when people are just conversing?

Having talent around him doesn’t make things harder for Mitchell, it just makes it so that he doesn’t have to do everything. Can you grasp that?

The team was 17-27 before he took the lead and 22-3 since. Is that comprehensible to you?

[EagleMountainUte]

I can’t think of an NBA team doing that, having that dramatic of a flip. Ten games under .500??? I know what he will say he will just insult the talent of the nba and it being mediocre. 

[ironman1315]

.

[chinngiskhaan]

how am I being a dickhole exactly? Because I don’t agree with your assessment? Because I thought you were a teenager based on your ridiculous suggestion that Mitchell is already better than Iverson?

I think any objective fan would agree that Mitchell is not better than Iverson was.

Could he some day be better? Yeah, that is certainly possible. That doesn’t mean it’s happened yet.

I never once said Mitchell wasn’t a good player, or that he wouldn’t be an all star, or hall of famer, or whatever else you can think of. I literally have not said one negative thing about Mitchell in this entire discussion.

All I did was point out that you (whichever one of you stated that Mitchell is already better than Iverson) are wrong. That isn’t a reflection on Mitchell, that isn’t a reflection on Iverson. It’s a reflection on you, and I suppose myself.

“willfully negative towards Mitchell”

Please point out where I said something negative about Mitchell. PLEASE. I would love for you to find something.

You won’t find anything, because I haven’t said anything negative about Mitchell. The most negative thing I’ve said is that he isn’t an all-time great YET… but I also said, in that same comment, that he may very well get there one day. How is that, or anything else I have said, negative towards Mitchell?

Again, please point out where I said something negative about Mitchell. When you realize you were wrong, and you can’t find anything negative that I’ve said about Mitchell, feel free to apologize for being an over sensitive homer.

Also, I really don’t care that the Jazz beat my team by 20. I wanted my team to tank this year… but they are the Pacers, and tanking is out of the question, which I’m sure you guys can understand being fans of a similarly small market-ish team.

and, just because I’m curious. Do any of you guys actually believe the Jazz are going to make serious noise in the playoffs? (By that I mean western conference finals or more)?