Funniest thing about tonight?

[Utah]

If Washington’s kicker misses the FG, then all the negative comments happen…but from Washington’s fans. Lol. 

More maybe they aren’t as big of babies as we are. 

But still, if Wash loses, then you can take all these whining posts, delete Whitt and put in Petersen. 

Lol. And these are from grown ass men, with careers and families and 401K’s. 

[EagleMountainUte]

If Washington’s kicker misses the FG it then forces OT which wouldn’t have been necessary in the first place because you didn’t need to call timeout…….

[ragtownute]

We should be content with our participation trophies. That’s the attitude that losers who accept defeat have. It makes them feel better about failure. 

God forbid a fan complain when their team loses. Especially when millionaire coaches make stupid decisions that cost the the team wins. 

[TexanUte]

Totally agree with ragtownute! Whitt seems to be beyond reproach for many Ute fans. It’s his program – he owns the record.

[RiseasUtes]

Utah, Why are you defending him on this call?  I don’t want KW fired, but that was beyond a stupid timeout to take in that scenario.  He makes mistakes just like anyone else and this was one of them.  I agree with you pretty regularly, but youre being beyond an apologist in this scenario.

[Utah]

I’m not defending the call. BUT, he was aggressive all night. I get why he called it. It didn’t work. Washington is better. 

What bothers me is people calling for his head. It’s ridiculous. We balled out yesterday. Washington is better. 

Calling for the coach that has done more for Utah than any other coach, including 4 of our best seasons as head coach and five of our best seasons as a coach? 

Its juvenile. The tantrums being thrown by adults. It’s pathetic. 

Thats my problem. Whitt our coached Petersen for 58 mins and had a much more talented, superior team on the ropes. 

[ladyinred]

Preach! 

[ladyinred]

The TO was bad but not nearly as bad as the defense giving up those 10 points within 2 minutes. Offense was the stronger unit last night, so the real mistake I see is them not ending the game on their final drive.

 

Whit had a near perfect game plan that almost won the game we were supposed to lose by 17. Yes, it’s easy for all of us to say in hindsight that the TO shouldn’t have been called, but it’s certainly not a fireable offense. It’s not being an apologist, it’s called having some perspective imo.

[RiseasUtes]

It wasn’t just dumb in hindsight, it was dumb and I was p**sed at the time he took it.  No, he doesn’t need to be fired, but that doesn’t mean he can’t be criticised for stupid decisions.

The team played a good game(offense more than defense).  A few terrible calls by Taylor in the red zone, but good game otherwise.  I was happy with the performance overall, but that call was dumb, you guys can try and defend it, but it was a bad decision(hindsight or in the moment).

[ladyinred]

I’m not defending calling the TO. I’m defending his general decision making which was a pretty badass game plan. We can be mad about that one call, in the moment or later, but it was not the thing that lost the game. Giving up 10 points in 2 minutes lost the game. 

[RiseasUtes]

I agree, but 3 of those points came off the back of that call.  Our D had just been on the field for a long drive and that call put them in a bad spot by keeping them on the field.  We weren’t in a position to benefit from that call.  But I agree that overall it was a well coached and played game.

[TexanUte]

There was a 10 year period in the 90s when USC wasn’t USC because of consistent coaching deficiencies until Pete Carroll took over. This thought that it is a static paradigm and USC is USC and that is all there is to it is not backed up by the data. Even if you accept that it is a crap shoot for the so called middle teams then why haven’t we won the South after this many seasons? Perhaps coaching is preventing us from doing better than we are with the talent we have. You cant prove the counterfactual that they are actually excelling because of Whitt any more than me claiming the counter but I for one am ready for new leadership.

[shakeitsugaree]

There was a 10 year period in the 90s when USC wasn’t USC because of consistent coaching deficiencies until Pete Carroll took over.

Source?

This thought that it is a static paradigm and USC is USC and that is all there is to it is not backed up by the data.

USC conference winning percentage in Pac12: 0.703 source
USC Head Coaches in Pac12: Kiffin, Ogeron, Sarkisian, Helton source
USC recruiting classes in top 10 (2011-present): 6 source

Even if you accept that it is a crap shoot for the so called middle teams then why haven’t we won the South after this many seasons?

I wrote a post about this – you asked me a question in that string, and then failed to acknowledge my response. I would direct you to my previous comment.

Perhaps coaching is preventing us from doing better than we are with the talent we have.

Perhaps. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

You cant prove the counterfactual that they are actually excelling because of Whitt any more than me claiming the counter but I for one am ready for new leadership.

What?

[ladyinred]

What I also see in these numbers by year are peaks and valleys. We started off the first year in the pac 12 respectably considering we hadn’t the chance yet to recruit pac 12 talent. Graduation, new players, those players gaining experience that resulted in the comparatively good years ‘14 and ‘15. 2015 really should have been our year. Last year was close too but still lacking in some skill position areas – QB for one.

We can see that next year is setting up to be a good year, 2019 possibly great. I am not on the fire Whit bandwagon unless the next 2 seasons disappoint.

[shakeitsugaree]

Curious why you arrived at a ‘winning conference record’ as the criterion for performance.

I took a look at the conference records of Pac12 south teams (average through 2016):

USC 0.703
UCLA 0.574
ASU 0.531
Utah 0.481
Arizona 0.389
Colorado 0.241

Utah is literally one win away from a 0.500 record – and you think that’s coaching? The coaching carousel at USC has produced a 70% win percentage in conference – and only one Pac12 south title.

The only trend I see is that of recruiting; USC and UCLA consistently have better athletes then the rest of the division – and their winning percentage reflects that.

The three teams in the middle are close enough in talent that it’s essentially a crap shoot.

[shakeitsugaree]

And, after some reflection – one could make a case that even UCLA’s record isn’t statistically different than the Arizona schools and Utah.

So, if you want Utah to have a 70% in conference winning percentage, you need to figure out a way to make Utah USC.

[shakeitsugaree]

Your expectations are irrational. The only team whose in conference record matches your criteria also has had the greatest number of head coaching changes. So, you can’t equate in conference winning percentage with who the head coach is.

You can, however, correlate conference record with recruiting. Recruiting is directly correlated with history and endowment. USC has the best history and greatest endowment from boosters. If you want to improve Utah’s record, you must improve Utah’s recruiting. Since it is highly doubtful that Utah’s boosters will match the contributions at USC, we must build Utah’s history. This takes time. Utah’s recruiting has steadily improved under Whittingham, and has drastically improved since joining the Pac12.

We will never be USC, but we do have a shot at enriching our talent pool. Whittingham is directly responsible for this.

Seriously, we are turning into the Zoobs of the Pac12. We are not going to dominate every year in this conference. Accepting this will make Utah football much more enjoyable for you.

[shakeitsugaree]

You completely missed the point.

I didn’t include 2017 because it is statistically insignificant.

There is a top team and a bottom team in the Pac12 south. The other four are not statistically different from one another.

The only trend that can be concluded from winning percentage is the quality of recruiting.

Your expectations are irrational.

[shakeitsugaree]

Who is Mr. Mediocre?

You are the one who gave conference winning percentage as the ultimate measure of a HC’s worth.

You are acting like a Zoob. I say this based on your unreasonable and irrational expectations.

You are ignoring the fact that conference winning percentage in this division is most strongly correlated to talent depth – or, can you refute this?

You want a >0.500 winning percentage? Recruiting must improve. USC is an example of this.

Your expectations are irrational.

[shakeitsugaree]

I’m still confused by the ‘Mr. Mediocre’ moniker.

So, you can’t refute any of my points, and are more interested in ‘exposing’ something about me? Seems productive.

You have a good night, M-Mad89. Welcome to UteHub – try to be nicer to other posters.

[ladyinred]

Mr. mediocre? How do you know shake isn’t a gal? 😜