How does BYU get recruits(other than Mormons) when they have the Honor Code?

[Utebeam]

First off, I need to state that I am active LDS and I attended BYU for a couple of years, but graduated from the U(yay). I can understand why the school has the hc, it makes perfect sense for young LDS members who want to go to school there to be held to the hc. Its really just the ability for the school to bounce students if they don’t live up to the church standards.

Granted if you do get bounced they will let you come back if you go through the repentance process, while not being a student. This may seem totally ascine but when you consider the school has told people the rules before they entered then it’s up to the students to decide if they want to live the hc. On a side note I would not go back there if I had to do it over again and I will be very clear with my kids that they don’t have to attend any church schools.

Interestingly enough I have been through the process and I saw a roomate go through it as well. This is not the reason I ended up finishing at the U. But while I was at the U it was nice to not have the gestapo watching over you and scholding you if your shorts weren’t the right length, yes that did happen. If you think BYU-P is bad you should see how bad BYU-I is. It’s like living at home with you parents. Cerfews, strick dress codes, and all sorts of crazy sh!t.

So back to my orginal question. If you want to play football and don’t feel it’s your duty to play for TDS, then why would you ever go and play there? Who in their right mind would want to be recruited to a school knowing that you could get bounced for drinking/drugs, immorality, etc.

BTW when I was there I knew several athletes that where violating the HC(so I turned them in, just kidding) their coaches knew and looked the other way. This was 20 years ago and I think things have changed dramatically with regard to HC violations and athletes.

[PlainsUte]

Makes perfect sense??   Are you serious, Clark?  Doesn’t the so-called Honor Code go well beyond so-called “church standards”??   I am thinking in terms of dress code and grooming aspects.   Not clear on Coca-Cola.

The reality of the Honor Code (and the LDS temple recommend, for that matter) is that is all about NOT GETTING CAUGHT.   It rewards lying and deceit, mainly.   I think it should be called the DC, Deceit Code.

Why would recruits agree to play there?  Sure, the recruits are told about the honor code but often they are also told or ACTUALLY DEMONSTRATED on recruiting trips that it is possible to party in Provostan as long as you keep it on the down-low.  As you mentioned, there are many athletes violating the HC on a regular basis.  Thing is, sometimes word gets out. It has been well established that you are more likely to get caught if you are a person of color, particularly of large muscular build, because they stand out so much in otherwise whitebread Provostan.  Also if girl friend (or one night stand as the case may be) gets pregnant, you are sure to get caught.   Most guys are thinking it won’t happen to them, or just aren’t thinking at the time when it comes to women.

[Utebeam]

I think it makes perfect sense for an LDS member to agree to live the gospel princples and have those tied to a church school. Even if those rules go beyond temple recommend ?’s. You’re not going to get kicked out if your shorts aren’t long enough or you have a beard but you will if you get drunk and lay the wood to your GF. 

I think you’re questioning the reality living the hc with the chance of getting bounce being a disincentive if you admit to not living the standards. I think you are absolutly right in that respect.

I never did understand why someone couldn’t repent while attending school. As a result of the strict HC and the punishment for its violation, I saw my fair share of students who should have been kicked but weren’t due to them being deceitful. The HC creates a lot of conflict in my opinion, wether it is unreported rape or other things. Bottom line, even if they hear the coaches side they just have to look at media reports to see what they are up against. 

[Anonymous]

First, I rarely respond to this type of posting because it’s pretty much an abyss — goes nowhere.

Second, collectively speaking, I can’t stand BYU. I think the way its major sports (BB/FB) are run is a farce. Don’t care much for its Honor Code, either.

Third, just because you don’t agree with its HC, or don’t know people who actually believe and practice HC, that does not mean it’s being used to deceit. I know a lot of people who truly believe and practice HC — good for them. There are plenty of morons and fanatics who are attending or graduated from Utah and don’t care a thing about integrity. Clearly, there are BYU students/alum/people who cheat the system. So? People cheat and game all sorts of systems. In the end, it’s just another collective, established “cultural norm”; as such, people will game the system to their benefit.

All I’m saying is that calling the Honor Code a Deceit Code is a bit harsh. My 2 pesos.

p.s. Yes, I am LDS, but don’t have an active temple recommend.

[RedLine]

Harsh but not necessarily untrue either.

[Anonymous]

I guess so. If that’s the stance, then pretty much anything analogous to HC has both true and untrue elements. I’m certain people mis-use and abuse anything. I still remember when BYU’s BB coach said something about letting 9 million Mormons down after Burgess chose Duke — what a moronic statement.

[PlainsUte]

“people cheat and game systems all the time”

This is exactly what the TDS HC teaches people, and to some extent the TR, too. I’m glad we agree.

It just galls me when TDS (and fans, mainly) uses it to imply that somehow this makes them more pure, or something.

[ladyinred]

Yeah, I’ve always wondered this myself. Maybe because they have no better offers? Or because there is a wink wink nod kind of discussion with the coaching staff about helping them stay off the radar of the HC office?

But what troubles me the most about BYU in general is that it seems like East Berlin under the Stasi. It seems like people must be constantly ratting others out in order for these HC violations to come to light, and the feedback loop that inevitably creates.

A girlfriend of mine was on a cross country flight home to Salt Lake several months ago. She happened to be seated next to a recently returned missionary gal. My friend chatted a bit with her, and then decided to treat herself to a glass of wine as the drink service came through. My friend nodded off a bit and woke to find that her seat mate had sent the still mostly full wine off to the flight attendant to throw away. She left my friend this note about jesus loving her and how she was helping my friend. I tell this story because I have never attended BYU (shudder at the thought) but I imagine it is full of people who think and act like this. It seriously creeps me out.

[Utebeam]

Ouch, I’m sure your friend has a new found love for the missionaries and has already sent several thankyou notes. 😉 

[UtahFanSir]

Oh, okay, uhhhmmmm, Jesus did drink wine. That wine had alcohol in it because that is how they made it back then. And he thought so much of the beverage, then He turned water into wine at a number of parties, back in the day. Sanctimonious cow, that one.

[Red Don]

That’s only part of the whole “gestapo” thing I don’t understand.  This need for someone to tell you what to do and how to do it and then have the continual oversight to assure compliance baffles me.  The whole Honor Code thing, all of the rules on CougarBoard that the members complain about on a daily basis, and the same oversight and scrutiny of comments to the DNews.  Just unbelievable.  I can’t understand why any non-member would want to go near that place.

[UtMtBiker]

“Immorality”? Haha..because having sex is immoral right? It never ceases to amaze me how unintentionally offensive Mormons are. In the 80’s and 90s it might have been an appealing opportunity for some kids regardless of what they had to sacrifice to go there. Today, I can’t see why anyone without LDS ties would make that choice if they have any other decent offer. I see the TDS recruiting classes moving more heavily towards LDS or lower level recruits that still see it as a better opportunity than New Mexico, UTEP, Bowling Green, etc. I’d be curious to see a list of non-LDS kids with power 5 offers that have decided to attend BYU. For BYU to compete they HAVE to get nearly every LDS player with major offers. Huge kick in the nuts when they don’t get them because they know they can’t compete at the highest level without them.