Offensive scheme as viewed through history and fit

[SackLakeCity]

This is something I have been thinking about lately, does our current offensive scheme match the historical success and personnel we can recruit?

I’m not 100% sold on the current scheme and don’t think it really matches what has brought Utah success over the years. It seems to me that historically Utah can:

1- Recruit running backs from either JC or from wherever
2- Good Offensive lineman
3- Average receivers with every so often finding a really good one
4- Ok quarterbacking with the exception of a few

It seems like the spread / read option would be a good for a Oregon / Arizona / Arizona State schools whereas Utah should be more of a Stanford type offense with power and a quarterback mainly for play action passing, roll outs and bootleg type plays. It seems too many teams/fans want to follow the latest trend that may not fit the personnel they can recruit.

I really don’t like the dual threat quarterback because of all the injuries that happen when a quarterback runs too much.

So basically I would like to see an offense in the future with large offensive linemen, JC running backs, a good quarterback doesn’t take a ton of risk.

Thoughts?

• This topic was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by SackLakeCity.

[Tony (admin)]

Yeah we are kind of weird in that we run a spread formation but have a power running game? I’ve often wondered if we should be a pro set/style with a real deal tight end and even two running backs.

1st down: run or play action
2nd down: run or play action
3rd down: run if short yardage and throw if long

There must be some reasoning for the spread, read/option style. Maybe without a pure QB, and having one who is a pretty good runner, we go spread…

[Anonymous]

My theory is that it’s far easier to get and insert a good JC running back than it is a JC QB. The RB position is more of an instinctual position as opposed to a cerebral position like the QB position. Thus, it’s more likely to get a second chance RB who rebuilt his academics at the JC than it is to get a QB the same way. QBs generally don’t fail or fall into the JC rebuild route because they are generally pretty good academically. The rub with QBs is that it takes much longer to develop them compared to a RB. It takes time for the game to slow down for the QB enabling them to read the defense. Dual threat QBs are quicker to develop and insert because they can run when things break down. Pro style QBs take the longest to develop as their game is completely read dependent.

So if you want a quick reload program, you opt for dual threat QBs and tons of speed at the skill positions. If you want a championship team, you build around a pro style QB and power run game, but you face inherent up and down cycles as you do this (see Alabama).

[SackLakeCity]

Great comments! I see the ideal Quarterback being a quarterback who can hit most of the throws and has a few designed runs. I loved some of the things that Washington’s QB did last week, I saw a few roll outs and a bootleg that worked well, obviously he looks like he will be really good, but it didn’t seem like those type of plays would require a QB to be too talented.

I would be curious to see the numbers on how many snaps a dual threat quarterback lasts during a season vs a traditional drop back type quarterback. It would be interesting to see the injury numbers to see which type of runs a quarterback should take and which not. I’m just not sold on a running quarterback maybe due to the injuries that have happened to the other teams in the state namely, Utah State and BYU.

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by SackLakeCity.

[SackLakeCity]

After reading some of the comments and giving it some more thought here is what I think here would be the best strategy going forward. To an extant I think Utah is already doing most of this, but I would want to overemphasize it.

Offense: Run a Stanford offense that fluctuates on being more or less dynamic depending of skill of QB we can get

Offensive & Defensive Line: I think we are pretty good here, keep doing what we are doing.

Running Backs: Recruit JC kid who is either mad that USC didn’t recruit them or couldn’t get in (booker, white, and list of others) I think there will always be a few opportunities here. Go to Texas or Florida to fill void, again kid with chip on shoulder for lack of recruiting of preferred local schools.

Wide Receiver: Recruit JC kid who is either mad that USC didn’t recruit them or couldn’t get in (Steve Smith Sr, and list of others) I think there will always be a few opportunities here. Go to Texas or Florida to fill void, again kid with chip on shoulder for lack of recruiting of preferred local schools.

Linebackers: Find the occasional RM Utah Local and then return to what works: Recruit JC kid who is either mad that USC didn’t recruit them or couldn’t get in. I think there will always be a few opportunities here. Go to Texas or Florida to fill void, again kid with chip on shoulder for lack of recruiting of preferred local schools.

Defensive Backs and Safeties: Get the occasional hard working Utah kid and then…you guessed it…Recruit JC kid who is either mad that USC didn’t recruit them or couldn’t get in. I think there will always be a few opportunities here. Go to Texas or Florida to fill void, again kid with chip on shoulder for lack of recruiting of preferred local schools.

Punter: Australia

Kicker: Ex Soccer Player

I think the keys to having special seasons are:

1- Finding either JC kids or Freshmen with Huge Chips on their shoulder because USC didn’t recruit them. Find a way to remind them about this before game time.
2- Help these freshman and JC kids raise grades to qualify
3- Find a couple of the 2* Diamonds in the rough every year.
4- Decent Quarterback who doesn’t lose games

As I mentioned Utah does this to an extant, but I would love to see them go to this model. They would be a team of hard working kids with chips on their shoulders that no one wants to play.

Thoughts?

• This reply was modified 8 years, 5 months ago by SackLakeCity.

[GadValleyUte]

I have wondered the same thing. To be honest that’s what I really want. Know your strengths and weaknesses and double down on what you do well. If we build around a feature back and everyone knows it why not set up in a pro-style and take advantage if a good/experienced O line and then keep things honest with some play action and an occasional vertical route?

I was wondering if we went with the read option to cover up our weeknesses at the skill positions while transitioning to P12? Travis is fine in the 0-15 yard throws, but seems to have trouble moving through progressions and making accurate longer passes. By making the D accountable for the QB it makes short throws easier and allows a great runner to occasionally break from FG a big run off tackle?

Assuming Kyle stays I’m interested to see what direction we go in. Our Recent JC QB commit makes me think we’re planning on sticking with the read option.

[YodaUte]

So basically I would like to see an offense in the future with large offensive linemen, JC running backs, a good quarterback doesn’t take a ton of risk

So you’re saying you want Conner Manning next year?

[Anonymous]

@yodaute another great point. Why was Manning recruited to Utah? He made sense under Norm Chow but I couldn’t figure out why they signed him.

I really miss that Ute offense the first PAC12 season. Utah recruited to that and it looked good but continuing this silly power run attack with a spread option makes me wonder.

Offensive identity is the largest issue Utah has had since joining the PAC. I believe it is still a problem Talent and depth was the second and it seems to be a lot better. (EXCEPT LINEBACKERS AND SAFETY) The passing game has a lot issues not all of it is Wilson’s fault either. I think it is a combination of play calling, wideout talent/consistency, and injuries. Wilson has lost two tight ends while I like Handley he just isnt as versatile as the guys ahead of him.

Great thread and I agree with all of it I think Whittingham knows it as well. If it is obvious to a bunch of fans than a head coach is very aware.

[SackLakeCity]

@maximumkungfu I agree with you on your last point, I would double down on what Utah does well and create an offensive identify that works with what Utah can get and the demographics. One point that I heard today on Gunther is how the receivers don’t block and can’t get open. I wonder if with a different scheme that works better with who Utah can get, would it help the receivers get more open and is Utah recruiting the wrong receivers if they won’t block. It seems to me a receiver with a chip on their shoulder would block.

[SackLakeCity]

@yodaute Not necessarily start Manning, I am not just thinking about next year, but thinking long term and generally about what the offensive model / scheme should be and who would work best. I guess at this point I have come up with who typically success at Utah and what has driven Utah’s success, the next step would be to identify the scheme that would work the best.

To retreat a bit on what I have earlier said, I wouldn’t want to completely go away from a dual threat quarterback, but I would want one that would run less and choose the type of runs to avoid injuries if possible.

I think an ideal quarterback would be one like a 2013 Chuckie Keeton, Brett Ratliff, Brian Johnson type, I would also disagree with those Travis Wilson as quarterback critics, If not Travis then who? Who would have gone to Utah that would have been better than Travis? He is a Warrior and a good quarterback.

[SackLakeCity]

@beehiveute Good comment! I really want to figure out what the offensive identity should be for Utah. I also think Travis gets too much of the blame, dude’s a warrior! If Utah had a quarterback with maybe better skills but less of a warrior, Utah would not have been 9-4 last year nor 8-2 this year. Another quarterback wouldn’t have lasted this long nor had the guts to pull off some of those victories or had the balls to make the runs Travis made.