There are more posts bitching about politics than there are posts about….

[Tony (admin)]

POLITICS!   Well….here’s a post bitching about people who bitch about politics.  Covid is relevant to sports.  It WILL and HAS affected our Utes and us. Discussing covid and masks and all of that is warranted, but make it civil and leave out the p**sing and moaning and name calling or your post will be deleted. 

[RedRocks]

It is unfortunate that people have made COVID, vaccination, and mask wearing about politics. These are health issues that should be addressed based on your health concerns; not your political party.

[UteBacker]

Healthy informative discussions, yes.  P**sing matches, no.  

[Brettski]

P**sing match is a funny term. Go Utes!

[belli1976]

62% of Utah are Mormon. My most “faithful” mormon family in Utah where the most hesitate to get vaccinated. I find this very ironic as the leadership of the church have encourage getting vaccinated wearing masks the majority of the pandemic. And this made an official statement that members should get vaccinated. I hope this causes a spike in vaccinations in Utah. And therefore solidify the football season.

[Thlete]

Yeah I’ve struggled to understand them at dynamic. I’m active LDS, conservative, but got that shot as soon as I could and put my kids in trials to get them early. Wife is a trauma nurse, so maybe that affects our understanding of the situation.

Interesting discussion with my BIL who refuses to get vax for him and family – even after the First Presidency announcement yesterday. My wife had a nice argument with him about it since we are on vacation together right now.

He countered with “only people with co-morbitities get really sick” but he has a few himself that she pointed out. Still didn’t budge. *shrug*

[EagleMountainUte]

I worked entirely through covid and feel my immunity is enough. Also the last time I got a flu shot around six years ago I had a severe allergic reaction. Was very sick for almost two months.

I don’t get them anymore and based on the risks factors don’t see the need to get this one. I am a late thirties male who worked the entire time through Covid among people. I eat reasonably healthy and don’t see the need.

The psychological and socialogical consequences we are creating from all this is going to be far worst down the line. I hope it helps reduce many of the risks factors for some people but shutting in an already too sedentary society is not and never will be the answer.

Edit: I am not anti vaxxer. I get vaccinated for many things that have gone through far longer and extensive clinical trials.

[RedRocks]

While I respect your opinion and right to not get a vaccine, you are perpetuating some incorrect ideas. Just to be clear:

-Late thirties males who eat reasonbly healthy and exercise CAN get Covid. (Even if vaccinated!)

-Just because you worked entirely through Covid and didn’t get sick does not indicate that it cannot happen to you or someone else.

Life is a series of choices that involve a certain amount of risk/reward tradeoff. How you choose is up to you; but please don’t perpetuate already disproven ideas.

[EagleMountainUte]

You are assuming I didn’t get sick. I have been antibody tested for Covid. Discussing these things online is pointless. I will ignore these threads going forward.

[RedRocks]

Yes, I assumed; that is how I interpreted your post. Sorry for misunderstanding.

I assure you, discussing these things in person seems equally pointless. Yet we continue to do it. Why? Because without discussion, nothing changes. It gives us all an opportunity to see someone else’s viewpoint. Hopefully we consider, at least for a moment, that our way is not the only way.

You make your arguments, I make mine. My statements are not the end-all-be-all. We cannot possibly cover every nuance in our posts; therefore, assumptions are always made.

This is a discussion; there is no winner. Hopefully there is an exchange of ideas as we work to dispel misinformation.

[Stone]

I don’t think @EagleMountainUte perpetuated any of the ideas you rebut. He did not say he could not get Covid due to his health or could not get because he worked through covid – he simply said that he felt that his immunity is enough. And that, based on his current health and personal experience with other shots, does not think the risk is worth the reweard.

My point originally is simply this: who are we to say that, despite his personal experiences and circumstances, we know what’s better for him that he does? I certainly do not know his situation better than he does. Nor does he know mine better than me. We each need to make informed decisions based on our own circumstances and stop being so judgmental of others we know nothing about.

[RedRocks]

At what point did I say they should get vaccinated? I explicitly stated that I respect their right to not get a vaccine. I agree that each of us need to make our own informed decisions.

However, I feel like people are not making informed decisions and are instead relying on politicians and radio talk show hosts. Americans are drawing weird lines in the sand based on gross misinformation.

I merely took issue with their projection of certain ideas. It is fine that you read their intent differently.

[Stone]

Everyone is different. What makes sense for one, does not necessarily make sense for all. The vaccine appears to reduce the risk of serious illness – but the effectiveness also appears to wane in some people. There are side effects of the vaccine. For most, the side effects are minimal to non-existent. For some the side effects are more serious. People should make informed decisions regarding their own situation.

If you are older and more at risk, the vaccine largely seems well worth any possible trade-offs. If you are a teen or younger, your covid risk is nearly zero – so the cost/benefit analysis gets tighter. If you are between those two catgories, it is a sliding scale and can depend on many factors. If the vaccine effectiveness wanes or is not as effective against all variants (as it appears to be doing for some) that also factors into the cost/benefit calculation. Bottomline is we should be less self-righteous and judgmental about what others choose to do. We do not know the situation of others, their experiences, their risks.

If you get the vaccine, kudos. You now have all the protections it affords. If it works as hoped, you have little reason to worry about what others do. If, on the other hand, the vaccine doesn’t work as well as hoped, then you have less reason to demand someone else to take it. 

[SkinyUte]

Yep, vaccination is a personal decision that has no effect on others.

Except for the hospitals that are filling up with unvaccinated COVID patients and have no room to care for patients with other life-threatening issues.  

Or the kids under 12 who can’t yet get vaccinated and are seeing an increase in cases with the Delta variant (and we haven’t even started school yet).

Or the immunocompromised who can’t get vaccinated and are now essentially housebound.

So, other than those, of course.

[RedRocks]

Funny how after all this time, people still can’t see past their own noses to realize that their choices can have profound effects on other people.

I still think that people should maintain this right to choose, however; even when selfish.

Yes, there are people who legitimately cannot get the vaccine; it is for these people that the rest of us should at least strongly consider it.

[Stone]

Your reply proves my point. Many people do not get vaccinated for personal reasons that are specific to their situation. Glad to see you agree.

Also, getting an illness versus having serious effects from an illness are entirely different considerations. Kids are at greater risk of dying from seasonal flu than covid. More kids died of swine flu that have died of covid. Remember how we shut down schools for that and made kids wear masks? Oh yeah, we did not. Yes, kids can get covid. But they also get all sorts of ailments. Covid statistically poses almost no risk to kids.

This is not a binary where I think covid is fake. Yes, people are hospitalized for covid. Some hospitals have many patients. There is still room for care for patients for other life-threatening diseases. Hospitals are not turning people away with life-threatening issues. 

[SkinyUte]

There is still room for care for patients for other life-threatening diseases. Hospitals are not turning people away with life-threatening issues.

My brother is an anesthesiologist in Nashville. This is the text he sent me this morning. “Our hospital is officially transitioning to disaster status, phase purple. Limited outpatient services, limited OR’s, moving staff to direct patient care from auxiliary positions, etc. We’re at about 30 COVID + inpatients and have had as many as 23 patients waiting for beds in the ER at one time.”

So I suppose you’re right that they would perhaps find a way to admit someone with a truly life-threatening issue.  Anything short of that, though, you’re on your own.  

[belli1976]

Stone

More kids have been hospitalized from Covid than the last 4 years of flu hospitalization.

UofU chief of pedriatric infectious disease article

[RedRocks]

Of course I agree that people have personal reasons for not getting vaccinated. I do not, however, believe that around half the population of Utah falls into this category…

“More kids died of swine flu that have died of covid. Remember how we shut down schools for that and made kids wear masks?” – This seems like an odd argument. Since we did a terrible job of managing a prior illness, we should simply continue doing a terrible job? We should learn and do better.

 

[RedRocks]

“If you are a teen or younger, your covid risk is nearly zero”

This statement is not really true; especially with the delta variant.

People like to cite the fact that we do not understand the long term implications of the vaccine (which is true). However, they like to conveniently leave out the fact that we also do not understand the long term implications of the virus, especially for kids. There are indications that there may be long lasting after effects from the virus (though nothing concrete that I am aware of).

[Stone]

Yes, there are unknowns. But the evidence to back up the risk of serious illness/death for young, healthy people exists based on stats of who has had covid and who has died or had serious illness. Is it possible that all those young people could die 10 years from now because of a latent issue that we did not know about? Sure. But that is pure speculation. I am dealing in what we know so far, which is that if you are a teen or younger, your risk of having a serious illness or dying of covid is nearly zero. They still get covid, but, thank heavens, are somehow better able to deal with it.

And yes, it is still true with Delta variant.

[RedRocks]

I understand what you are saying and agree that there are many unknowns. I don’t, however, understand what argument you are trying to make.

Everything we are talking about is based on a very small timeslice. This requires speculation to determine the best approach. Everything you said about getting covid could be applied to the vaccine as well (latent issues, speculation).

As I understand it, statistically speaking, you are far more likely to have severe complications from covid than you are from the vaccine (at any age).

Again, I am against mandatory vaccination. We live in a society; your choices affect other people. I just want people to look to the right sources for information; you know, people who actually do research (scientists) or people with hands on experience (health care workers). Not politicians, talking heads, and random people who make stuff up on the internet.

[Central Coast Ute]

I’m Mormon and am vaccinated. Having said that, the reason people are anti-vax as far as covid is concerned obviously has nothing to do with religion. The way we went about locking down and forcing masks really made people put up defensive walls. We’re hearing more and more talk of forced vaccinations and that’s going to cause a lot of people to push back even more. Right or wrong, that’s the way it is. I think it falls more along ideological lines and demographics than it does which church you go to. Not all unvaccinated people fall on the right side of the political spectrum.

[UtahFanSir]

Even living in a state with mask mandates, not one, and I mean no one has forced me to wear a mask. I did wear one. To protect myself, my wife, my family, my friends, those I don’t know because I wanted to “help a brotha out”. No one I have seen – and I’ve seen a bunch – has ever come up to a person who elected to not wear a mask and demanded or forced them to wear a mask. NO ONE! But folks can be dicks about it, and go on and on about freedom no one is taking from them. Just my take. 

[Central Coast Ute]

Not sure where you live, but I saw it a lot at the beginning. After a few weeks almost no one was maskless. But I was mostly talking about is vaccines.

[chinngiskhaan]

Can I bitch about the people bitching about the people bitching about politics?

[Tony (admin)]

Then the bitching would come full circle. 

[chinngiskhaan]

All would be right in the world again