Trump and the EC. Help me understand something.


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    • #27651
      5 1

      SkinyUte
      Ute Fan
      @skinyute

      Why is Trump so utterly obsessed with his Electoral College victory?  He brings it up every chance he gets, typically in completely unrelated discussions.  Questions about rising anti-Semitism?  Electoral College victory.  Questions about the Flynn controversy?  Electoral College victory.  Questions about ties to Russia?  Electoral College victory.   Questions about Israel?  Electoral College victory.

      He keeps touting it as this amazing, historic victory, when it is really anything but.  It was only the 8th (of 11) largest margin of victory since Carter, and 46th of 58 total elections overall.

      1984 – 525 Reagan 1
      1980 – 489 Reagan 2
      1988 – 426 Bush 3
      1996 – 379 Clinton 4
      1992 – 370 Clinton 5
      2008 – 365 Obama 6
      2012 – 332 Obama 7
      2016 – 306 Trump 8
      1978 – 297 Carter 9
      2004 – 286 Bush 10
      2000 – 271 Bush 11

      He sounds so ridiculous and, frankly, ignorant by repeating it over and over again, so I’m just trying to figure out the rationale behind it.  I suspect it’s so he can continue to dodge the actual question being asked, but perhaps there’s something else I’m missing.

    • #27652
      3 3

      Utah
      Ute Fan
      @utah

      It’s because the right has no other plan or topic that they have any intelligence on, so they just keep shouting the same rhetoric over and over and over again. 

      Like or dislike the Left, they passed the ACA. All Trump has done is signed illegal executive orders….

       

       

      AND talk about how huge his victory was. 

      • #27671
        4 5

        Anonymous
        Inactive

        Like or dislike the left they passed the ACA??

        You mean another reason to tax people? My premiums and cost for medical care has increased since the ACA.
        As much as you call the Right sheep it is amazing how much wool covers your body.

        Obama’s number one legacy shows him as a fraud.

        • #27684
          2 2

          ladyinred
          Ute Fan
          @ladyinred

          @beehive the Heritage foundation? Really? You could probably even find something on CNN or NPR or WaPo (the hated mainstream media) that criticizes the ACA. No need to immediately undermine your point by choosing possibly the most biased source after maybe Breitbart. =)

          Absolutely there are problems with the ACA, including that premiums have continued on their upward trajectory since its implementation. But that wasn’t Utah’s point anyway. He was pointing out that, so far, literally Trump’s only vehicle for implementing his agenda has been the Executive order. When will we see anything moved forward via actual legislation? Something that has to stand up to even the minimal scrutiny that a republican controlled congress will give it? Yes Obama signed EO’s too (every president does a lot) but Trump has shown little initiative in regard to working on legislation.

          • #27685
            3 1

            SkinyUte
            Ute Fan
            @skinyute

            Interesting side note: the ACA had many very similar components to the healthcare reform plan that the Heritage Foundation themselves submitted in the mid-90’s.

          • #27687
            3 3

            Anonymous
            Inactive

            It has references for all of the claims. ACA is a disaster as Obama’s main legacy it is a failure.

            I found that article to cut straight the through the bulls**t and break down everything that is wrong with it. Also mentions medicare issues. Why don’t you read it and vet it.
            Edit: Ok to his point of executive orders vs legislation not a Trump fan at all. But good hell it is February how long did it take Obama to push ACA on us? I do want to see what Trump can do legislatively though. I also want to see how is “illegal” EO will stand in court.

            • #27692
              3 4

              PDXUteFan
              Ute Fan
              @pdxutefan

              We already know how his EO will stand in court, have you not been paying attention? You found that article because of your inherintly biased stance against Obama and it suited the needs of your argument, the methodology for which you searched (if you didn’t already have that particular article on that particular website bookmarked) ultimately led you to an extremely biased website. Your post history leads me to believe you are utterly incapable of making an unbiased informed opinion on any political matter, your arguments will always be unidirectional and you will never modify your opinions when confronted with factual information. You are one of those people where there quite literally is no point in arguing with because when confronted with information (based upon factual evidence) you double down on your wrong opinions and beliefs rather than take the time to consider the evidence which flies in the face of those opinions and beliefs. 

              • #27696
                1

                ironman1315
                Ute Fan
                @ironman1315

                His EO will be parsed out and its efficacy will be limited but some of it is probably going to stand because of just how much deference the court gives to the president in terms of immigration and national security. Besides that, the Establishment Clause Lemon Test will probably not apply in this case. But the court will not uphold other portions because of the Due Process Clause.

              • #27699

                Anonymous
                Inactive

                Well if we had my way we would do away with EO all together as not having any basis in the constitution. As much as you have bemoaned Trumps orders as unconstitutional or unlawful or racist. All of the EO are illegal and should have nothing to stand on. Yet Presidents have freed slaves all the way to interning Japanese Americans in camps.

        • #27688
          4 1

          Puget Ute
          Ute Fan
          @pugetute

          It is hilarious to see the Heritage Fdn write that article, since they developed much of the framework upon which the ACA was based. And don’t pretend that your insurance premiums weren’t going up before the ACA, or that they won’t go up significantly after it gets repealed (over the opposition of 65%-70% of the public, as polls show).

          Looking back I wish Obama had truly used his veto-proof majority in the Senate and majority in the House to pass a framework that included a single-payer option that people could opt-in, as a backstop against private insurance companies backing out of insurance exchanges, Republican congressionals cutting away the insurance companies’ incentives at every turn*, and states’ governors refusing to participate in the programs. I am sure he believed that people would find a way to take the framework, make it work, and make it better. Instead they ensured in every way possible that it would fail.

          And when they repeal the ACA there are people you know and love, as well as people on this very site, who will be unable to get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. My aunt is a cancer survivor. Pre-ACA she was told by one of the few insurance comapnies who would cover her that her out of pocket premium would be upwards of $5000/mo (not per year). She is currently healthy, but had cancer/surgery/chemo in the past.

          (*One example is Marco Rubio inserting a one-page note into the ~1000 page-long, last-minute-before-shutting-down-the-government, 2015 Omnibus budget bill which eliminated the incentive penalties that were being paid up front to keep the big insurance companies solvent for assuming the higher-risk pools. This incentive was negotiated up front as a temporary means (through 2018, iirc) to keep the companies happy, but once that was removed several of the companies could no longer accept the higher-risk pool and chose to back out of the pools. Of course this was blasted in the media, and held out by people like Paul Ryan as an example of the ACA failing.)

          • #27689
            2

            SkinyUte
            Ute Fan
            @skinyute

            And when they repeal the ACA there are people you know and love, as well as people on this very site, who will be unable to get insurance due to pre-existing conditions. My aunt is a cancer survivor. Pre-ACA she was told by one of the few insurance comapnies who would cover her that her out of pocket premium would be upwards of $5000/mo (not per year). She is currently healthy, but had cancer/surgery/chemo in the past.

            Doesn’t matter, because…STIGGINIT!

            (I feel her pain. We’ll be in a similar boat due to an issue my wife has been dealing with since childhood.)

    • #27654
      6 1

      SkinyUte
      Ute Fan
      @skinyute

      It was funny to see him get fact-checked on this in real time during his PC today, and try to stumble his way around it.

    • #27655
      7

      Utahute72
      Ute Fan
      @utahute72

      One thing that really bothered me in the news conference, and it bothered me when Obama did it, is the constant comment, “I inherited a mess”.  No one cares, do your damn job and STFU about those that came ahead of you.

      • #27662
        9

        SkinyUte
        Ute Fan
        @skinyute

        Agreed.

        Also, hearing a winning President continuing to degrade their opponent 3 months after the election is over is really weird. The election is over and you won, why are you still screaming about Clinton?

      • #27776
        1

        Duhwayne
        Ute Fan
        @duhwayne

        Except in Obama’s case, it was factually true.

    • #27657

      PlainsUte
      Ute Fan
      @plainsute

      How many of those Presidents also lost the popular vote?

    • #27666
      1 2

      Anonymous
      Inactive

      Simple. He is very insecure.

      I think someone on Reddit made this comment, but I’ve borrowed it:

      “He’s a poor man’s idea of a rich man.

      A stupid man’s idea of a smart man.

      A weak man’s idea of a strong man.”

      • #27667
        2 2

        Anonymous
        Inactive

        If there were any substance to him, he wouldn’t have to employ the “alpha male” tug handshake.

    • #27672
      11 1

      PDXUteFan
      Ute Fan
      @pdxutefan

      After listening to the press conference (was that a real press conference or an SNL skit? I seriously can’t tell anymore) I’ve come to accept the reality that the only thing that may keep this country from completely going under are more leaks. It’s quite clear that the president is either completely delusional or is legitametly suffering from a medical problem like dimentia. It’s also quite clear that he is 100% willing and capable of making up his own “facts” and “truths” in a vain attempt to satisfy his own insecurities. At some point that behavior WILL cause a signficant emergency, either home or abroad. It used to be that I look a “leak” from some unnamed insider with a massive grain of salt, these days though the leaks seem to be the only thing keeping the clowns in the White House honest. The POTUS and his staff have nobodies interests in mind except their own and they will do ANYTHING to make sure they put those self interests first, including making up the most ridiculous lies imaginable. 

       

      I honestly have no idea how anyone can support this man anymore, the USA is legitametly becomeing the laughing stock of the world, in the end it is we the people who will suffer. 

      • #27678
        1

        SkinyUte
        Ute Fan
        @skinyute

        Yeah, today’s press conference was rather disturbing. He appeared to not know basic information (i.e. what the Congressional Black Caucus was), he berated a reporter asking about anti-semitic incidents (right before telling everyone “I’m the least racist person in the world, believe me”), he blamed the press for ruining his relationship with Putin, then casually started discussing nuclear holocaust. The entire thing was just…surreal.

    • #27680
      4

      ladyinred
      Ute Fan
      @ladyinred

      Fake facts! Totally biased! Why are you so mean?

      I don’t think there is a really good answer to your question, but I guess he brings it up to remind everyone of the supposed mandate he has to keep acting like he has been?

      After listening to his ”press conference” (which was really a clinic in petulance and assault on the press) I seriously worry more than ever about the 1st amendment and freedom of the press under this administration. He only called on reporters from the ”lying media” in order to lash out at them, call the work that they do ”fake” and insult with his non-answers. He then even went so far as to tell the group that the questions which weren’t uncomfortable for him were the ”nice” ones. I get that previous presidents have provided evasive answers to difficult questions, and picked on reporters that would throw them softballs, but I’ve never seen anything more brazen and hostile. 

      Since he has already taken so many pages out of Putin’s book (all protests against him are ”paid agitators”, fake news, and more) I would seriously not at all be surprised if we moved towards having a state-run media machine like they do (RT) that is the mouthpiece of the regime. Scary stuff. 

    • #27719
      1

      ladyinred
      Ute Fan
      @ladyinred

      I heard a commentator on one of those totally fake news outlets, NPR, who has been following this from the Russian side. She said that the Russian agents involved in tipping off the CIA that the DNC had been hacked have been thrown in jail for treason. That means any investigation into this will hit a wall, because these people will not be available to talk to.

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Utah Utes Fan Board Forums Politics Trump and the EC. Help me understand something.