Zoob board

[ironman1315]

They love twisting themselves in knots about how Whitt is a terrible coach.

https://www.cougarboard.com/board/message.html?id=20245609

Pace, I found your people.

[Utah]

The funny thing is, if you take away the trophy, he instantly becomes the fourth, if not worse, best coach ever in the state. 

Now, that trophy is everything, but other than playing a p**s poor schedule and barely beating a bad Michigan team with their third? fourth? string QB in a bowl, he wasn’t better than Whitt or Urban or even Bronco. 

[UteThunder]

This take is just as crazy as them trying to discredit Whittingham.

LaVell was a great coach with or without their MNC. Not as great as their fans want to believe, but he was great, and for a looonng time, too. Whittingham is a great coach, too. 

The problem with trying to compare Whit to LaVell is that the MWC Kyle coached in was head and shoulders above the WAC LaVell coached in. Then comes the transition to the Pac-12 for which there is no comparison. 

 

[Utah]

LaVell played in a different time and different set of circumstances. Bronco’s winning percentage is better than LaVell’s and LaVell averaged 1 P5 school a year, Bronco was almost three. And Utah sucked when LaVell was around (at least the beginning 2/3rds) and there was no TCU. What Bronco did was a lot more impressive than what LaVell did. PLUS, LaVell didn’t have to worry about the honor code like Bronco did. 

LaVell did what he was supposed to do, with three times the athletic budget of anyone else: win. And he won. And he should get credit for that. 

But if you were to line up the head coaches that coached in this state and hold a draft, it would look like this:

Urban, Whitt, Ike Armstrong, Bronco, LaVell. Maybe you flip Bronco and Armstrong because of all the extra BS Bronco had to deal with down there. 

LaVell won a national championship, which is amazing. BUT, when you look at 2004, 2008 and 1984, 2004 and 2008 were much more impressive seasons. When you look at the teams Urban and Whitt beat, what they did was much, much more impressive. 

BYU was lucky they lived in a time where they could scam their way to a national title. 

[Utah]

Here is some more info on LaVell: He had some DISTINCT advantages. BYU was spending twice as much money on their athletic department as any other school in the WAC/MWC. 

Bronco didn’t have that. He had Utah and TCU in the same realm as BYU. 

What does that mean? LaVell could hire a lot of damn good coaches and he did. Bronco? He was stuck hiring HS coaches and s**tty former BYU players. 

LaVell didn’t have the honor code, Bronco did. LaVell didn’t play a good Utah and TCU every year. Bronco did. 

I’d take Bronco over LaVell any day of the week, all other things being equal. 

[Utahute72]

I’d place LaVelle third, behind Ike and Whitt. If your working across eras you need to look within that period to get a valid take. Ike Armstrong had a national presence when that was almost impossible for a western school outside the LA area. Second would be Whitt, his BCS appearance and second place finish is easily equivalent to the trophy at BYU in an era when the system was so flawed it had to be changed. Couple that with his successful move to the next weight class and I don’t think there’s any question he has outpaced his mentor. LaVelle gets credit for innovation and the one Championship, despite the flaws in the system back then. Fourth would probably be Jack Curtis. After that it’s probably a pick’em between 4-5 coaches.

[Utah]

No Urban? 

What about Bronco having a better win percentage with a much, much, much tougher schedule and having to deal with the honor code?

[COFfrom83]

let’s not forget that none of lavell’s teams ever had to bother with the honor code.

[EagleMountainUte]

Most true statement. Which makes me respect him even more.  You can call it hypocrisy if you want let’s just be real if you ain’t cheating you ain’t a good coach. I don’t care what anyone says EVERY great coach is a pathetic cheat on some level until they get caught. 

The WAC competition level is a real knock on him though. 

[Utah]

Do you want to know why BYU always struggled when they played at Hawaii? 

I’ll tell you why, and it makes me respect LaVell as a person even more. LaVell’s philosophy that being in Hawaii was a treat for his players and he realized that many of his players would never have the chance to be in Hawaii again. So, they would have bed checks early while there and the coaches would then go away. 

There was an unwritten rule that there would not be any more bed checks the rest of the night and the players were free to go and explore the island. So after 3-4 nights of 2-3 hours of sleep, BYU players were WRECKED for the football games and stuggled there. 

Source: Many, many players who played for LaVell. 

[Utah]

“Pace, I found your people”

BWhahahahahahahahahahahahaha

[User Suspended]

Yup, it’s similar to how you ( and other who are not blue goggled zoob supporters) evaluate  Kalani Sitake, rational. – which I agree with.

Kwitt is a solid coach. Just not the next step coach.

Hoping this new AD isn’t a status quo guy,  and not the ” Hey, Utah is peculiar and we should be happy with what we have” AD.

Way to many of local Utah fans have this weird persecution complex.  ” Utah has a different cultcure and it’s really, really cold in the winter”.  Have you ever been to F’n Lincoln Nebraska in February? 

TIME TO STEP UP!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you think having a team challenge for a  PAC12 championship team every 5 to 10 years is the goal….you need to change your goal

 

 

 

 

 

[Utah]

This guy is either a huge troll or has no concept of reality. 

[User Suspended]

STEP IT UP.

If Urban was still at Utah he wouldn’t find it acceptable that Utah has not won a PAC12 championship ( let alone a division championship).

Maybe it’s a mormon thing that Utah shouldn’t demand the best….. F’n Boize demands more…  

[Utah]

Ok, outline how to do this. What are some REALISTIC things Utah can do to get where you want them to be? 

[ironman1315]

Dude you are a Zoob troll you fit so many stereotypes of Utah fans.

[User Suspended]

Dude,  I’m Catholic ( Three times a year) and haven’t lived in Utah in 25 years.

I will agree with you that I am not your typical Ute Fan.  Probably not a lot of my type who went to Utah but look at the program for outside of the bubble.

All I’m saying is don’t short change the potential.    

 

[User Suspended]

Oh, and by the way I live 45 minutes away from what a lot people believe is the worst city in American ( maybe the world)  – Detroit.

Yet this state school that I live 500 yards away from DEMANDS the best.  Demands the best in academics and athletics. Sh*tty Detroit suburb and winters that would make Utahns balls fall off.  Yet the some of the best athletes from around the country ( including CA and FL) chose this dreary, dead end town….

STEP IT UP

[ironman1315]

Cool story bro. But we do demand excellence. We just understand that these things take time. Utah doesn’t have the same tradition that meat chicken and meat chicken state have. Patience is a virtue.

[User Suspended]

I’m glad you like the story.. bro.  I hope it helps you understand the possibilities, 

I hope it helps you recognize the potential the Ute program has.  I always come away come away from reading Utehub/Utefans as fans just happy to be in the Pac12 and being competitive….. bull*hit.

Urban was the first (and last) coach that preached that little o’ll Utah can reach higher

Kwhitt is a good coach, I just wish he’d push himself and his staff to be great.

Unfortunately I predict another 8 win season with a Vegas bowl victory.

[ironman1315]

I know what the possibilities are. But I know how long it takes to build a program from MWC to PAC-12 level. Arizona and ASU sucked for decades. Whitt is doing things right and he’s not a total douche nozzle like Meyer.

[User Suspended]

Name me a winning program that didn’t have at least a bit of “douche nozzle”  with their coach.

Every competive coach in my neck of the woods is  a douche nozzle (depending who you talk to).

kwitt needs to STEP UP and make it happen before he retires…..just not sure he’s that type of coach.

 

 

[ironman1315]

Yeah, I really want a person that protects domestic abusers for years.

[noneyadb]

Agreed, 16+ NFL prospects in one season and still couldn’t get over the hump.

[Duhwayne]

Nebraska is your comp? We aren’t that behind Nebraska. Nebraska and Colorado are basically surfing off of the 90s just like BYU surfs off the early 80s. Mean reversion is a thing. Utah will revert to the mean someday for a time. Whitt is the reason we are competitive. If you keep banging the coaching change drum, we should review your opinion a few years after Whitt goes. Unless the next one has local ties, he isn’t going to lock up the recruiting as well. And I don’t think anyone in his tree can surpass him. I don’t think he is surpassed in the near future.

[User Suspended]

I would love nothing more then kwhitt stepping up and saying we need to do better. Urban did and he made it happen.

This is kwhitts last stop. His goal needs to be PAC12 championship or better…. anything less is coasting.

Again, I hope the new AD is on the same page.

 

 

[chinngiskhaan]

what makes you think his goal has ever been anything other than winning the pac12?

 

And you still haven’t come up with any sort of realistic alternative… Not a single one.

[ironman1315]

IT’s because we haven’t won at whatever level he feels is sufficient in whatever pipe dream he is having atm.

[chinngiskhaan]

Kyle has apparently won a national championship at Utah… So I don’t know what you are griping about. How much higher could he possibly get?

[UtMtBiker]

I can’t make sense of that board.  The waterfall formatt with half sentences hurts my brain.