Bit long, but worth a watch in my opinion.
Another fascinating viewpoint from an ex-Muslim.
Mevsauce, you would’ve made a good Muslim had you been born into it.
I agree with this gal, thanks for posting.
It is great that the Left in the Western world defends Muslims against the demonization and xenophobic attacks from the Right. But the Left also needs to be willing to criticize Islam’s more extreme/ultra-conservative behaviors/beliefs – the same way it is willing to call out the Christian Right in this country for being anti homosexual/women’s rights, etc.
Continued silence and apologist rhetoric by the left not only allows the bigots in this country to not take them seriously, but it also hurts those working within the Islamic world to reform its more extremist elements.
Well said. I think it’s also important for Americans to learn more about political Islam. A conjoined church and state has been out of our society’s consciousness for a few hundred years, so it’s easy to take for granted the notion that religion and politics are separate.
But Islam is theocratic, and that’s a whole other ball of wax. Our anscestors in Europe rejected that idea as a bad one after a thousand plus years of subjugation by the Roman Catholic church/empire. And not without a fair amount of blood spilled.
It was interesting to me to learn that one of the co-organizers of the woman’s march after inauguration day, Linda Sarsour I believe, is a pro-Sharia Muslim. Essentially, as far as I can tell, that means she would replace the constitution with Sharia Law. How many of those women putting on American flag hijabs know that?
I’m sorry, that is a terrible idea and I personally have to call it out as such. Advocating a religious legal system in favor of the Constitution of the USA is like buying a Flintstones car instead of a Tesla. Terrible idea.
It was interesting to me to learn that one of the co-organizers of the woman’s march after inauguration day, Linda Sarsour I believe, is a pro-Sharia Muslim. Essentially, as far as I can tell, that means she would replace the constitution with Sharia Law. How many of those women putting on American flag hijabs know that?
You could be entirely correct (I’d never heard Sarsour’s name before this morning), but do you have any links for this claim? With a quick Google search, the only sites I could find claiming that she’s hard-line pro-Sharia advocate are a few ultra-conservative blogs, whose “proof” of such is anything but.
I think it’s also important for Americans to learn more about political Islam. A conjoined church and state has been out of our society’s consciousness for a few hundred years, so it’s easy to take for granted the notion that religion and politics are separate.
Except here in Utah. We totally understand conjoined church and state here thanks to the gerrymandering that has resulted in our 6 GOP reps and the religiouslature.
It was interesting to me to learn that one of the co-organizers of the woman’s march after inauguration day, Linda Sarsour I believe, is a pro-Sharia Muslim. Essentially, as far as I can tell, that means she would replace the constitution with Sharia Law. How many of those women putting on American flag hijabs know that?
I don’t know much about Sarsour but I had read something similar. Yeah, I am very uncomfortable with that idea and is another example of the line I feel needs to be walked. While I will defend Islam when it’s being attacked by rednecks, defending the hijab or more generally the role of women in Islam is difficult for me as a woman. But I am also uncomfortable with the role of women (or lack thereof) in Mormonism.
Except here in Utah. We totally understand conjoined church and state here thanks to the gerrymandering that has resulted in our 6 GOP reps and the religiouslature.
Well, to a degree I suppose. But, to whatever degree Utah lacks separation of church and state, it is still on the opposite end of the spectrum compared to Islam. Utah in the 19th century might be a closer comparison, but still lacked open advocacy of death to outsiders, apostates (supposedly there was some of this though), adulterers, homosexuals, etc etc.
But don’t get me wrong, I am not going to defend Mormonism. It is an organized religion and uses some similar tactics to those of Islam on its members. However, Islam takes the cake. The people Mormonism produces are generally pleasant enough and make for decent neighbors. However, looking at footage from Europe, the opposite appears to be the case with sufficient members of Islam in a neighborhood.
While I will defend Islam when it’s being attacked by rednecks
To this, I must ask why? By your use of the term ‘rednecks’, are you insinuating a racial aspect? I really don’t understand this. Religion is not race. Religion is a set of ideas and has nothing to do with skin color. However, skin color is a sensitive subject to the point of being a weakness in many Euro-Americans and Europeans, and appears to be a point of attack by political Islam from what I can see.
Anyway, perhaps you meant something else, which I’d be interested in hearing your reasons. But I personally don’t see this as a racial issue. Islam is a religion chock full of terrible ideas. The victims of it, its members born into it as slaves and brainwashed from birth, THEY need to be defended from IT if anything, in my opinion. And yes, other would-be victims of it, as it expands, also need to be defended from it. Islam as a set of ideas is no victim. It promotes perpetration of brutal violence and rape. That is indefensible, in my opinion.
But don’t get me wrong, I am not going to defend Mormonism. It is an organized religion and uses some similar tactics to those of Islam on its members. However, Islam takes the cake. The people Mormonism produces are generally pleasant enough and make for decent neighbors. However, looking at footage from Europe, the opposite appears to be the case with sufficient members of Islam in a neighborhood.
I didn’t mean to say that our situation here is exactly like Muslim countries, I’m just pointing to the inappropriate intermingling of politics and religion here. I don’t disagree that Mormons make for decent neighbors (even if many are zoobs). My gripe with Mormonism is very similar to my gripes with any other religion, except that Mormonism happens to be more in my face so I pick on it. =)
I have spent the last 6 or so years traveling to Europe for work 4-5x per year, mostly in Germany but also sometimes Poland, Holland, etc.
I have seen glimpses of some of the neighborhoods that are often depicted on the news, and obviously it’s very scary and problematic. But I have to disagree with the idea that sufficient members of Islam in a neighborhood is the whole problem. 1 – Europeans in my experience are quite racist, to an extent that would make even a Steve Bannon type blush. Hell, they even hate each other as fellow white people. The Germans hate the Dutch hate the French hate the Polish and so on. I’ve heard some candid remarks from average Germans that are pretty shocking. The Europeans pay a lot of lip service to inclusivity and acceptance, but there is an undercurrent of racism and xenophobia that is pretty strong, even while they are generally liberal. Muslims stick out as the ”dark people”. Add to it they prey like 5 times per day and the Europeans don’t spend a lot of time in churches. The result is that the Europeans don’t integrate very well, I think we do a better job in this country of integration, and that is not exactly a high bar. 2 – Europe is taking WAY more refugees than their fair share, and they don’t spread them out to different cities/communities like we do, but rather tend to put large numbers of them in a single location. (Granted, the US is bigger). 3 – Immigrants and refugees’ economic opportunities are far more limited there than they are here. Europe may have a more generous social safety net, but the job opportunities are pretty grim, especially in places like France where the unemployment rate is already high. So the result of all this is pretty predictable.
I don’t want to sound like I’m defending Muslim extremists, because f**k those bastards who killed some cartoonists and people in nightclubs. But the Europeans could help themselves in the way they go about resettlement.
By your use of the term ‘rednecks’, are you insinuating a racial aspect? I really don’t understand this. Religion is not race. Religion is a set of ideas and has nothing to do with skin color. However, skin color is a sensitive subject to the point of being a weakness in many Euro-Americans and Europeans, and appears to be a point of attack by political Islam from what I can see.
I understand that religion is not race, but I don’t think we would be having the exact same conversation if Muslims were white. So yes, I do think there is a racial aspect to the vitriol directed to them in the US and Europe.
Islam is a religion chock full of terrible ideas. The victims of it, its members born into it as slaves and brainwashed from birth, THEY need to be defended from IT if anything, in my opinion. And yes, other would-be victims of it, as it expands, also need to be defended from it. Islam as a set of ideas is no victim. It promotes perpetration of brutal violence and rape. That is indefensible, in my opinion.
Agreed, except I would go even further and apply these qualities to Christianity as well. (and maybe other religions I am not as familiar with). Christianity has ”grown out” of the more extreme violence, but we still have things like priests raping children, gay conversion therapy, etc.
I should add that I am still not in favor of a Muslim ban of any sorts. I think it achieves the opposite of what is intended.
That’s a good discussion, and she has some very valid points.
However, here’s the rub. While those on the left absolutely need to better understand and speak out against some of the more hard-line aspects of Muslim ideology, those on the right also need to stop immediately viewing every Muslim as a murdering terrorist who is out to kill your family until proven otherwise. Muslims are so demonized and stigmatized in the US (primarily by the religious right), that trying to defend them in ANY way is typically met with a blanket statement of “everything about them is evil”, which doesn’t leave much room for discussion or learning.
There’s likely a middle ground of understanding which could at least lead to a discussion of shared values, but the entire national dialog has been hijacked by the extreme viewpoints on either side. I don’t know if/how we can get past that, especially when this administration is very actively pushing one side of the equation.
To that I would add that Muslims also need to grow some thicker skin. All the campaigning to disallow even the slightest sniff of criticism is not only evidence of political ambitions to dominate existing culture here and in Europe, it is incompatible with freedom of speech.
Our civilization depends on our ability to criticize ideas from top to bottom, out in the open, publicly and mercilessly. Yielding that ability to criticize bad ideas just will not work, and criticism is what leads to reform. The threats of violence and riots as seen in Europe, anytime Islam is criticized, is intended to silence and dominate. That aggression will not stand, man.
Bad ideas not only deserve criticism, they require it.
I would give you a thumbs up but my thumb is missing.
I agree with you, until either aspect (criticism or the defense thereof) is taken to extremes, which often ends up being the case.
That tends to happen when unrestrained violence is in the mix.
While those on the left absolutely need to better understand and speak out against some of the more hard-line aspects of Muslim ideology, those on the right also need to stop immediately viewing every Muslim as a murdering terrorist who is out to kill your family until proven otherwise
This 1 million times. I watched a discussion on PBS last night about Steve Bannon and some of the stances as well as documentaries he’s made. He portrays Islam as sinister and seeking to take over the world. It seems we’re moving from the Communists being the boogeyman to Islam.
It seems we’re moving from the Communists being the boogeyman to Islam.
Moving from? I’d say we’re definitely there already, and progressing further along that track every day.
True, although this was definitely still questionable as recently as 4 years ago when Mitt Romney called Russia our #1 geopolitical foe. It’s amazing how quickly we’ve moved from that to a guy who openly admires and apologizes for Putin as our president.
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