finally something progressive from our leguislature regarding motorcycles

[PorterRockwell]

http://www.ksl.com/?sid=43338681&nid=148&title=california-style-motorcycle-law-could-be-coming-to-utah

[Utah]

I love the Republican’s response, “I don’t know any real facts but I’m scared!”

typical. 

[ironman1315]

And yet it is a Republican running this bill. But never let facts get in the way of a good narrative.

[PorterRockwell]

Yeah but that’s only because democrats are an endangered species here and have a high level of difficulty getting anything meaningful passed due to gerrymandered  strangle hold that the Republican Party has on Utah politics.  And it’s never enough for them 

[ironman1315]

And it also passed 7-2, meaning Republicans voted for it. Again, the facts don’t fit the narrative. And let’s say it passes the house and senate, all voted for by Republicans and passed by Republicans. Again, breaking the narrative. And even without the supposed gerrymandering, I doubt, seriously doubt, the Democrats would pick anything more than 5 or so seats.

ETA: 6 republicans voted to pass it, 3 Republicans were absent (including Spendlove who made the scared comment), 1 Democrat voted for it, 1 Republican voted against it, 1 Democrat voted against it. So, again, is it really a Republican problem or was it just that Spendlove is just a nervous nelly.

[PorterRockwell]

Supposed gerrymandering? When Al Mansell was in office he admitted to gerrymandering the lines to put depmcrats against each other and make sure they had minimal chance of being elected he also admitt D they did it to get Matheson out of office

You saying supposed gerrymandering tells me either you don’t live here, haven’t been paying attention the last thirty years or you’re just clueless I doubt your clueless

Go do some research and read up on how volatile it was last time around.

[ironman1315]

I know more about what happened last time better than pretty much anyone here. I followed it closely. I say supposed gerrymandering because it hasn’t been definitively proven, not because I don’t think it happened.

[PorterRockwell]

It hasn’t been proven? Al Mansell saying they did it isn’t proof enough?????

[ironman1315]

It’s good evidence, but it is not solid proof, if that is actually what he said. If it gets litigated and proven then I will say it’s gerrymandering, until then, its supposed.

[PorterRockwell]

Hopefully litigation is coming Legislators should not be picking their voters

[PorterRockwell]

Did you see the tidbit about how republicans have made it so that legislative committees no longer need to have any sort of balanced representation? Maybe I should link pat Bagley’s cartoon and the article here for you.

You say republicans voted to pass it, if they don’t no one would vote.

[ironman1315]

Dude, there are 18 standing committees in the house alone. How many Democrats are there? 5? Even without the Repubs doing what they did there still wouldn’t be balanced representation because the Dems don’t have enough warm bodies to fill the seats.

Look at the proportion of who passed it then, recognizing the small sample size, 50% of the dems opposed it in comparison to like 25% of Republicans.

[PorterRockwell]

Dude. That’s their rationale. On the surface it looks like they are doing everything they can to disempower and eliminate democrats.

[ironman1315]

So wait, let’s go with 12 seats per standing committee, ignoring ad hoc committees for now. Let’s got for perfect balance, that’s 6 and 6. There are not enough Democrats to do that. Okay, so let’s say favored majority of 7-5. There are barely enough democrats to fill one committee. And you expect them to cover every single committee? How can they physically do that? How can they fulfill their duty as a legislator when sitting on all 18 committees and studying up on each bill as needed to be a good committee member?

Now, this also ignores the problems of getting a quorum if you have perfect balance and you can’t fill the seats or the other side just doesn’t have enough people. So, tell me again, how can you expect balance when there just aren’t enough bodies?

[PorterRockwell]

make the committees smaller and an odd number?  oh and you did see where I said what it looks like on the surface right? 

Maybe there would be more democrats if they hadn’t been forced to run against each other to protect republicans. 

[ironman1315]

I saw that. That’s I put up the hard numbers because the surface look can often be misleading. And no, they shouldn’t make the committees smaller because then the committee members and their interns/staff would be egregiously overworked.

As for your second statement, correct, maybe there would be. But there isn’t. This is what we have. It should be changed. Again, I think, at most, the Dems pick up 5 seats.

[Utah]

Here’s a fact for you right out of the article:

“I have driven on those L.A. freeways, and it freaks me out,” Spendlove said.

 

So, uh, there’s that. Like I said…

[ironman1315]

Here is a fact from the article.

Rep. Gage Froerer, R-Huntsville, the bill’s sponsor,

So, uh, there’s that. Like I said…

Your post is making it seem like all Republicans are like Spendlove, who is a bit of a scaredy cat both politically and in person. Nice guy though. My post refutes that clear implication by showing that 6 Republicans voted for it versus 1 against. So clearly, not all republicans, and in this instance the vast majority of repbulicans, aren’t fearful and basing their votes on a lack of facts. But you do you.

[Utah]

This isn’t true. Even my first response was singular. 

 

[ironman1315]

You said a republican was acting from a baseless place of fear and called it typical. The clear implication is that republicans usually act with fear and no facts. I showed how that’s is factually incorrect in this instance.

If you had said Spendlove was acting from a place of fear I would have probably agreed with you. But you didn’t.