OC carousel narrative.

[EagleMountainUte]

Frankly it is either Utah Fans insecurity or it TDS having a laugh at Utah’s expense.  I will not repeat them anymore. Whitt has high demands of his assistants but he does not chase OCs away. At best I would only say Dave Christensen was chased off. He was in the way which is very correct and documented by many players and coaches. 

[Utah]

I went through every OC a while back and showed that you are right and got downvoted to oblivion. 

It hasn’t been pretty but the common narrative isn’t correct either. 

[EagleMountainUte]

Yeah and I was stupid to not believe it. Apologies  man. It doesn’t add up. Especially how people want to include Chow getting the Hawaii HC job. As if Whitt should have known. Roderick crawls back repeatedly. 

This narrative is just to harm the program and Whitt specifically. 

[UteThunder]

Ha! 

About the time we hired Christensen, I could explain away the carousel as a series of unfortunate but understandable personnel moves. But, at this point, it is what it is – a full blown revolving door. 

If Whittingham doesn’t chase OCs away, why is that the only assistant coach position that has had such high turnover during Whit’s tenure? They aren’t leaving for promotions! Other than Chow, they have ALL been either demoted, fired, or left for a lesser job.

Whittingham has had 4 DCs during the same time he has had what will now be his 11th OC change. Show me one other assistant spot on our staff that has had that much turnover. Is there another school in the country that has had 11 OCs in 15 years? How can anyone say that Whittingham doesn’t chase off OCs?

[EagleMountainUte]

Yet here comes Ludwig crawling back to his vomit in your view.  

[UteThunder]

I admit, I can only guess the relationship dynamics at play here, but rumors back in ’09 were that Whit was feeling heat for the lackluster offense despite going undefeated, so Kyle encouraged Andy to look for a new job with no hard feelings between the long time friends. So, of the TEN OCs Whittingham has had, MAYBE TWO weren’t completely chased off (Chow being the other). 

Schramm – Demoted before leaving

A-Rod – Demoted

Erickson – Demoted then retired

Johnson – Offered a demotion, chose to take a demotion elsewhere

Christensen – Fired/non-renewed, took a demotion elsewhere

Harding – Demoted

A-Rod – Fired/non-renewed, out of football for a year before taking a lesser position elsewhere

Taylor – Left a Pac-12 OC job for a Big Sky job . . . yeah.

So, friendship intact, maybe Ludwig just wants to come home to Utah and here is his chance. I’ll say this, there is a mountain of evidence that says Whit chases off OCs vs this one shred of evidence (albeit compelling) that says Whit doesn’t chase off OCs.

[EagleMountainUte]

No evidence at all. You said it at the beginning you can only guess. F**king Erickson lives in Utah still for hells sake. That even smashes the narrative Utah is a hard place to live. Hell with Erickson money even I wouldn’t stay in Utah. 

So to recap no evidence other than maybe Arod and Christensen who both deserved it. 

[UteThunder]

Okay, ignore the evidence if you want. But there isn’t a football fan on this planet who wouldn’t say Whit chases off OCs, at least not any that aren’t wearing red goggles when looking at the facts.  

Also, how can you say A-Rod deserved it? His offenses were the best offenses we’ve had in just about every statistical category since Ludwig left. That’s not to say that A-Rod was a good OC, because he wasn’t, but he was better than everyone else who was demoted, fired, or left for lesser jobs.

And what does Erickson still living in Utah have to do with Whittingham chasing off OCs? It doesn’t count unless Whit chases them out of the state?

[EagleMountainUte]

Ericksen was demoted stayed on staff and closed the deal on the Trio. Come on your little Whitt is toxic for the OC position only works on Arod and DC. DC also was allowed to bring Harding who has stuck around. Just stop the narrative is bulls**t. 

[Puget Ute]

Here is your evidence.

Schramm (2009) and Schramm/Rod (2010) were by far the best Oh-fenses we had according to S&P+ advanced metrics.  Ludwig’s 2008 offense was statistically equivalent to the SchrammRod offense in 2010.  Since then we have been significantly worse statistically, with this year being the best in a long time.  Compare Utah’s arc with Ludwig’s arc over the years since he left.  (hat tip to UteBuntu for the graphic)

 

[prestitute]

How long did people think Erickson would be an OC? He was ready to retire a long time ago. Dude had a ton of money and nothing to really prove. I think he was doing Kyle a favor coming at all. And he paid HUGE dividends for us. 

[EagleMountainUte]

That is exactly what it was same as when Pease came back. Favor for Whitt to help the program out. 

BJ knows he needs to learn and truly was Whitts second biggest mistake next to DC. I value Harding though so it is like a wash. 

[Tacoma Ute]

Erickson is a head coach right now. His first game is 4 weeks away.

[chinngiskhaan]

Would you be happy if he kept any of those guys around for longer than they have been here? No, you wouldn’t, because none of them have done enough to warrant keeping their jobs for longer than they have. That doesn’t mean that Whitt runs them off. It just means that he expects as much out of his offensive coaches as he does out of his defensive coaches, and he hasn’t been getting it. Ludwig’s recent offenses have been significantly better against significantly higher competition levels, with, much like he’ll have at Utah, a talent deficit compared to other schools in the conference.

We all wanted a more balanced offense. Ludwig brings a more balanced offense. We all wanted more power running. He brings that. I don’t know why anyone would have a problem with this hire. Was he the BEST guy available? Not likely, but he isn’t a bad hire, and he will almost certainly be better than Taylor, who Whitt wanted to keep around (Taylor and Whitt both said this).

[UteThunder]

Excellent points and I can’t argue with much except for the part about Ludwig running significantly better offenses. Other than Wisconsin, compare his offenses to Utah’s. You won’t find much separation. Someone posted that Vanderbilts offense averaged a whole 16 yards more per game than Utah this year. That isn’t significant and it isn’t getting us any more wins. 

[Puget Ute]

Andy Ludwig left Utah to take a job at Kansas State (and then accepted the job at Cal instead). He left the MWC for the Big 12/PAC-12 and a big salary bump. Nobody in 2008 thought Utah was going to the PAC-12, and in fact the narrative at the time was for the MWC to replace the Big East as a BCS conference.

[Puget Ute]

Also, OCs seem to have a short term at most programs. Stability at DC is much higher than at OC across the country.

[Central Coast Ute]

Erickson chose to demote because he didn’t want to be OC anymore.

[pedro]

Yet you were also complaining during that time that Whit needed to do someone to improve the O.  He can’t win.  If he does anything, he’s “micromanaging” or “driving away OCs’.  If he doesn’t, then our O isn’t good enough.  Utah fans need to decide what they want.