Just a couple of annoying behaviors I noticed towards the end over at uf.n that have made their way over here.
1. When someone on the left ends a debate by dismissively saying something along the lines of “you obviously have your mind made up on this topic so there is no point in engaging with you.”
This is annoying because the implication here is that the person making the comment doesn’t have their own mind made up. In reality they are every bit as entrenched in their position as the person they are debating with, they just want to claim some sort of superiority by saying “well, you’re just not open minded like me.”
2. People who claim they are a moderate when they clearly are not. I see this mostly with liberals, but there may be a few conservatives who do it as well. Sorry, but if you lean left on most political issues, then you are not a moderate. You are a liberal. You might not be a bleeding heart liberal, but you are still a liberal. This behavior seems to be a defense mechanism for anyone wanting to state their political views without having to actually defend them, because “hey, I’m a moderate.”
I quit FB for a month and it was awesome. No political annoyances. I unchecked the category here too, but had to recheck it for some reason. I should uncheck again.
Regarding #2. I see that mostly with conservatives. Saw it a lot on Ufn. But perspective is in the mind of the beholder I suppose.
As Einstein pointed out, all things are relative. The fact that you see mostly conservatives that falsely claim to be moderates probably means you are fairly liberal in your perspectives. The real question is how many comments by liberals make you cringe or how many time have you voted for someone of the other party with a more moderate political bent.
I have rarely voted for the GOP. Why? Hatch, Lee, Chaffetz, Love, Herbert, Buttars, etc. Not really good choices there. President – voted for Ford, Anderson, Hart, Dukakis, Clinton, Clinton, Gore, Kerry, Obama, Obama, Clinton. No way I was ever going to vote for either Bush or Trump. Liberals make me cringe at times, but conservatives much more so, especially in the last 10 years.
The behaviors you’ve mentioned are certainly not limited to the left leaning. Let’s just all acknowledge people can be assholes, separate from political or other persuasion.
Likening it to Utah vs. tds, while I do despise zoobs, I can at least admit they are right to point out some of my fellow ute fans are also assholes.
There are no fanbases free of assholes.
yeah but we love our assholes more than most
That said, there are fanbases who seem to have more assholes.
I once saw a Utah fan make a douchey comment to someone else on Facebook, it was a gymnastics thread not even football (where people usually get worked up anyway). I made the mistake of then looking at his Facebook profile, which contained things like a confederate flag, a pic of a nuclear bomb as a solution to ”the Muslim problem”, and various similar gross things. Yeah, that’s the kind of Utah fan that I wish would just disappear, or at least choose a different team?
So where are the folks who are social moderates but fiscal conservative?
That is to say they are not willing to tell a woman what to do with their body, but don’t like abortion as a form of birth control. They have no brook with gays who want to commit to each other, but are also not offended by their marriage and does not believe it degrades the institution of marriage. They also want complete separation of church and state.
But they also want government to be fiscally prudent and accountable. They want the least amount of taxation yet expect government to work for the people by being productive. They expect both sides of the political aisle to solve intractable problems collectively for the betterment of the whole. They want due process and expect government to respect their privacy.
They believe in liberty and the pursuit of happiness for everyone. Yet they recognize that throughout history power and money make for an unlevel playing field. They see that not all of Americans have equal opportunity. They recognize that for a durable Democratic union a level playing field is critical. They know the founding fathers of this country absolutely appreciated the corrosive power of economic aristocracy and warned against the abuse of economic disparity.
They want a market based economy. They are not socialists or communists.
Are they leftists or liberals with all the pejorative that freights? I get the sense you are saying just that. You would think the way you worded that that there is some sharp divide here. On one side are leftist liberals whackadoddles, the other true Americans. I resent that.
For the record, I find “conservatives” to be more dismissive of the opinions of liberals more often than I find it the other way around. My experience. But since I honor free speech, I have no issues with anyone’s opinions even if after reflection I disagree with them. Just sayin’.
This is where I fall, and I have a feeling Thunder’s post was at least partially referencing my comment earlier. I happen to be very passionate about separation of church and state, and equal rights for all (I’m usually arguing for gay marriage as an example). Sadly, those are now seen as “liberal” views, when the country was literally founded on them. I’m not a “bleeding heart” just because I disagree with the current GOP’s stances on these issues. They allowed the party to be hijacked by the religious right, and are no longer simply a conservative group. They are largely theocratic, and that is something that all Americans should take issue with.
I’ve told this story before but in the election cycle prior to this, Obama’s second run, I shared a lunch table with man at Costco here in Central Oregon. A GOP debate had occurred the night before. This guy was pure Central Oregon cowboy, late 60s or early 70s. We got talking about the debate and GOP presidential hopefuls. He said to me that he was seriously conflicted. He had voted Republican his entire life and was devoted to the conservative causes in regards to government. But what really bothered him was the GOP mantle from the Religious Right. He went on to form his issue, that Republicans are all about individual rights, but somehow they’ve got in their head that its okay to get into folks bedrooms with legislation. He flatly stated, in one example, that he could not in good conscience tell a women what she could do with her body. And after perusing the fistful of GOP candidates, he found all of them willing to do just that.
Some have told me I’m libertarian, but I’m for certain regulations that I’m not sure they would endorse.
@AZswayze – My post wasn’t referencing your earlier comment because I did not see your earlier comment. I will say, however, that you are one of the posters I had in mind.
Please don’t take any of this as a personal attack because the comment was not directed at you specifically, rather, it was just a behavior I have noticed in many posters that has gotten under my skin. If someone leans left, then they should own it. If someone leans right, then they should own it. I get so tired of seeing people continually argue what could be called the Liberal Agenda, but when confronted by someone from the right they quickly claim to be a moderate in an effort to distance themselves from that group and avoid having to take responsibility for defending their left viewpoints.
I didn’t take it as a personal attack, but I think it’s incorrect. I am fiscally conservative, but on social issues I tend to lean left ONLY because the right has made it their responsibility to police matters that should be of a private concern. The left happens to be for certain things, such as gay marriage and a woman’s right to choose. I’m not pro gay marriage and okay with early term abortion, because it’s part of a liberal agenda or the Democrats’ platform. I’m for each because I have not been given any honest reasons to oppose either, other than ones supported by faith (which are not legitimate). That doesn’t make me a leftist, it makes me a freedom loving American.
I am very passionate about the separation of church and state, so I tend to discuss these more often, but each particular issue isn’t necessarily that high on my list of concern. They simply tie into a larger problem, which is the religious right’s insistence on telling us how to live our lives. Like I said earlier, I’m more Libertarian, but I have an issue with some of their ideas on regulation.
I do take offense at your last statement that people claim to be moderate to avoid having to defend their views. I defend mine to the point of exhaustion, and I don’t see how anybody who has followed political discussions on ufn or here can say otherwise. Maybe I’m exempt from that comment, but you didn’t make it clear since you opened by saying you had me in mind when making the original post. As a matter of fact, I take issue with being labeled, because usually the opposition is doing it in an attempt to quiet me. Once you’ve included me with a specific group it’s much easier to write me off, and discount any points I’m attempting to make.
Fair enough. Don’t take offense at the last statement, because you are definitely not one who hides behind being a moderate. You will at least defend your left leaning stances.
Thank you. See Hammer, not so hard.
I think I am what you describe. I think we should treat people equally, no matter where they stick their genitalia. I think abortion should only happen if the health of the mother is in question, rape or incest. BUT, how do you legislate that? When has rape occured? What defines the health of the mother? Because it is next to impossible to define that fairly and there is always exceptions, abortions should be allowed, and we should allow people to make their own decisions and stand before God and give account for their decisions.
I’m normally against government involvement. I think that they don’t always do things the right way. BUT, I also believe we have swung too far away from using government as a tool to help Americans. Government has evolved into a tool to make politicians rich.
We should use government to help with healthcare. It can help. Our system sucks. We have examples of great systems throughout the world, and we’ve allowed capitalism to go too far into healthcare and it is wrecking this country. What the republicans are doing right now is laughable.
I’ve always voted republican. I have never not voted straight party ticket before the last 8 years. BUT, what the Republicans have done the last 8 years is ridiculous. The tea party is ridiculous. Hannity, Bannon, etc are ridiculous. Trump is ridiculous.
I have a problem that a single parent making $75,000 pays a higher percentage of his taxes than many in the 1%. Why should that person struggle and be asked to pay 20% when Mitt pays 13%? Shouldn’t the tax rates be switched?
What I’m tired of from my party is that they have NO plan. They have been bitching about the ACA for 8 years. And yet, when they take over….crickets.
I’m tired of how dumb my party is. “Marijuana is slightly worse than heroin”. “Let’s lower the BAC limit to 0.05 with no real evidence this will do anything but drive up revenue”. “Let’s raise the food, gas and income tax in Utah, further burdening our families, but we are CONSERVATIVE”.
It’s a joke. I guess I’m getting tired of no plan, and then robbing the poor to feed the rich.
Call me a crazy, bleeding hear liberal if you want, but what Republicans have become, I am no longer.
On health care, this issue must be solved in the open with public dialog and feedback by both parties as full participants. I’ve been under the impression for the last seven years that the GOP had a better way, to solve some of the niggly issues in the current bill. But alas, they had no solution, just rhetoric.
The US is the only first world country where healthcare is a for profit business. By that I mean hand over fist profit at the expense of affordability. Furthermore, there is no real competition for hospitals, many of which were begun by churches. The GOP made sure that the government was not allowed to negotiate lower drug rates or lower procedure rates, as is the case elsewhere. There is no real competition among insurance providers. Nor have we allowed enough time for competition to develop as providers find ways to cut their high overhead costs.
I know how costly it is to become a doctor. I understand the social costs of malpractice. I understand the unrealistic expectations of patient groups. I get how much research is involved in drug development. Since I worked in the energy (oil and gas exploration and development) business, I understand risk.
But healthcare has become a serious economic strain on our society, the major cause of personal bankruptcy and small business failure. I posted a handful of links of research on this a week or so back. Folks by the late 1970s who had no care where crashing the emergency rooms across this country such that hospitals began to refuse them help. President Ronald Reagan had legislation drafted and passed in a bipartisan manner to force hospitals to take patients even if they could not pay. Full compensation by the USG to the hospital for said patients was not part of the bill. The can got kicked down the road.
The ACA is flawed. Fix it. Find a way to incentivize younger folks to buy health insurance in the same way they paid rent or a mortgage and buy gas and groceries.
The attack on healthcare and next social security will have consequences. I participate in a men’s group once a week here, in conjunction with the church I attend. The group has guys who are decided liberal and conservative. Part of what we do as a group is discuss ideas, how we can shine God’s love into the eyes of everyone we meet. Our church has what we call the Backdoor Cafe. It began as morning breakfast on Wednesday, now we offer showers, medical care light, counseling, clothes washing, etc. to the homeless population here.
So I’m talking to my conservative friend about both HC and SSN, asking him what to do. At some point I said, I think the idea of self determination and reliance is great and I wish everyone did that. Everyone needs the freedom to do that and to make something of themselves. However, for that to be effective, would you agree that equal opportunities are required? He said yes. Do you think all Americans have equal opportunities to a good education, early childhood education including nutrition. He said, probably not. I offered, then how does that play out over one’s life, for those handicapped at an early age? Does our system for all intents and purposes pick winners and losers at an early age, where a few do escape because they are particularly bright or clever or good athletes. He said, I see your point.
We got into SS, and I told him that if the amount of money put into social security (and Medicare) for me by me and my employers were put instead into 30-year treasury bonds, my monthly payout would be 30% higher, assuming in my calculations I lived for a decade beyond my expected lifespan. But SS has insurance provisions for loss of the breadwinner for dependents and/or disability. So its not just like for me, if you get my sense.
But here is the kicker. I said, okay, let’s assume we had no SS. Let’s assume that we had choice, freedom in a Libertarian perspective, to take care of ourselves in this regard. We “should” begin to save and save religiously from the get go for our eventual retirement. Do you believe given what you know about people, that all working folks would do that? And if not, what would this country in these times, with our current economic system, be like for a huge swath of folks. He said, I agree, folks would not save as they should.
My view is one of barbarians at the gates. Finding ways to get folks some basic needs met, HC and SS, is one crucial bulwark to keep people who have fewer opportunities, who are about destitute, from crashing the gates. While we may not believe it, criminality has a cost to all. I want to trade the prospect of greater criminality by desperate folks for some cake.
If anyone is truly familiar with the thought and ideas of the founding fathers of this country. They will see folks who feared dynastic economic power. For that reason, inheritance taxes were severe back then. We want it all. Our money, our freedom, our independence from poor folks. Having lived in SE Asia for a decade, among some of the poorest people in the world, surrounded by unbelievable wealth, literally forced by my company to live in a guarded, wall community. My greatest fear are the masses.
Instead, I’ll be a libtard. How we can shine God’s love into the eyes of everyone we meet. Failing the people on HC fails.
I agree with what you say.
@UtahFanSir – I believe what you are referring to is the political Unicorn. 😉
But seriously, if that is truly how you believe, then by all means, go ahead and label yourself a moderate.
My post wasn’t directed at moderates. It was addressing people who claim to be moderates while arguing for the liberal side of nearly every political issue.
So do you advocate that debates should continue ad infinitum until one party or the other changes their mind, thus indicating a clear winner?
And why do we need a clear winner (and this goes for both sides)? Usually compromise gets us the best deal, because where one party has weaknesses, the other party usually has that as their strength.
It’s pretty simple. Work together. Compromise. Continue building something great. We are the freaking UNITED States.
I was speaking to a guy from Georgia the other day. He was one of the nicest guys I’ve ever met. We talked good food, skiing, etc. But, he made a comment that took me off guard. I don’t even remember what we were talking about, but he said, “I don’t think anyone should ever be forced to do what they don’t want, no matter if it is right or wrong. You should be allowed to do what you want. Us southerners know about that.”
That took me off guard. Here, this guy believes that the south was screwed from the Civil War. STILL.
That’s tough. How can you have compromise when that is your attitude? At the same town, this white southerner feels like he has been screwed, why can’t he have some compassion towards African Americans and their movement and desires? Can’t they argue they feel the same way?
Anyways, we need to come together, not appart.
The Republicans are stupid for what they are doing with healthcare and the democrats are stupid with what they are doing with the Supreme Court.
Those people aren’t for us. They are for their pockets and the pockets of the lobbyists they belong to.
It’s not a left vs right issue. It’s top vs bottom. And most of us (over 95%, if not 98% of us) are on the bottom looking up and the top ascend higher and higher.
Agree and disagree. There are clearly cases where one side is in the right, at least from a constitutional perspective. There should be no kowtowing in these instances, and the group that has the constitutional stance should dig their heels in and fight.
No, but if someone is going to resort to ending the discussion by dismissively saying something like “there is no point in engaging any further with you since your mind is clearly made up” when their own mind is just as made up, then what was the point in engaging in the first place? Both sides minds are made up. Nobody is going to change anybody’s mind. It’s okay to have a debate, but saying something like that is a chickens*** way to end the debate.
It is condescending and hypocritical for anyone to say something like this.
Yup, and both sides do it and it is what is cutting this country in half. We are the UNITED States.
The problem is that most Americans want compromise, but most Americans are so busy trying to make ends meet, save for retirement and pay for healthcare, that we have let this country be over run by the rich.
This isn’t a left or right problem.
I think another part of this, is we don’t listen to experts anymore. We can read headlines, so we think we know what is going on. Tom Nichols, a Republican, writes about this a lot. Just because we have google, doesn’t mean we need to get rid of, or stop trusting our experts. They are there for a reason, and it is because they know better than we do.
When I feel one way, but someone who has researched this much, much, much more than I says opposite, I listen. They are smarter than I. I’d be dumb not to. Anyways, here is a condensed version of his ideas and a great read:
What makes somebody a liberal in your mind? I’ve been called a bleeding heart countless times on ufn, because I argue passionately for separation of church and state. Often, this means arguing for gay marriage, and against any law that has no scientific or logical basis. If the only “legitimate” argument for a bill is based on faith it has no place in this country. I was a Republican, but I ditched that s**tshow when I stopped bowing to an omniscient sky daddy and realized that their stances on key social issues were propped up on nothing more than the bible (and I’ve never been a Democrat).
I don’t label myself liberal or conservative. I’m an American who believes in constitutional rights, and am completely opposed to any sort of theocratic rule. If you believe that makes me some sort of extremist, then I might say you’re not a true patriot.
My current political annoyance is this: When people make the erroneous assumption that, because someone voted for this candidate or that, they must espouse all of that candidate’s positions. For example, this idea that because someone voted for Trump, who is anti-Muslim, that person must be anti-Muslim. Or if someone voted for Hillary, who supports fracking, that person must also support fracking. And so on and so forth.
The reality is, almost all of us are voting for the lesser of two evils, and we hold our noses while we do it. I probably agree with less than 50% of the policies of who I voted for, but that was better than the 20% of the other candidate’s policies I agreed with.
So please, let’s stop painting everyone with the broad brush of whoever they voted for. Nobody supports everything their candidate, their party, or their ideology says. We’re all to the left on some issues, center on others, and to the right on others still.
I get what you are saying…but, how in the heck did Trump even make it as far as he did? That is shocking and that deserves some ridicule and criticism.
Republicans can’t say that “I had to hold my nose and I don’t agree with him, blah, blah, blah” if they didn’t get out and vote in their primaries. It’s their fault he is president.
Just like Democrats can’t whine about Trump winning when they didn’t go out and vote. If Democrats would have voted like they did for Obama, Trump loses in a landslide. At that point, it’s their fault he is president.
Trump is president because Americans are lazy, plain and simple. We don’t want to take responsibility, we want to whine about everything that is wrong, but it’s never our fault.
I get what he’s saying though. For example, I can’t remember how many times I heard people call others racist, based on nothing else than the fact that they were voting for Trump. They might be ill-informed, or just fed up with the current state of politics. The latter was not a viable reason, in my mind, to vote for Trump, but it certainly doesn’t mean the person is racist. That’s a huge problem in general on the left; painting the right as bigots. It really is a bad look.
True.
At the same time, the right’s problem is not admitting it happens. The truth, like always, lies in the middle. There are a lot of people that voted for Trump for the wrong reasons. There are more that didn’t.
We need to not run to our corners and call everyone a racist or no one a racist. Take each case, one by one, individually and judge from there…maybe. lol.
Also, saying that the left is solely guilty of the first behavior, completely ignoring the right’s propensity to do the same, is absurd. I cannot begin to count the times a staunchly conservative poster typed those exact same words (“you obviously have your mind made up”), or simply ended the conversation with an ad hominem attack. Both sides do it and it would be interesting to go back and take a tally, but I think you might be surprised at the results.
I want to know how anyone can defend Trump’s lies. That is what takes the cake for me. Wire tapping, Obama’s birth certificate, illegal votes, etc. The guys just throws whatever ever bulls**t enters his mind and it shocks me some back him up.
Don’t be a rebublican or democrat. Be intelligent.
I think you have a few different types of Trump supporters. First, there are the ill-informed. They get all of their information from Limbaugh and Fox News. I know many of these folks (Arizona is awesome), and they will literally start arguments with “have you listened to Rush”. Second, there are the bigots. I think they get way more attention than deserved, and make up a relatively small portion of Trumpists, but there are definitely groups of people who believe Trump is the only guy who can deliver on at least some of their stances. Third, you have the guys who are otherwise rational, but have dug their heels in. I strongly suspect a few posters here fall in this category. They are smart dudes who have to see that Trump has no idea what he’s doing or where he’s going, but they’re far too invested to back off now. Just my take.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/03/22/politics/devin-nunes-trump-communications/ the claim might have some truth behind them.
I think most people are pretty close on the majority of beliefs, actually. I think most people can see both sides. The trouble comes when a person starts to lean slightly on one issue and they make their thoughts know publicly. A hoard of people jump the person who then has to defend their stance and attack the opposing view. People begin talking in absolutes, when truthfully, they probably agree on a lot of issues. There are many variables in politics, many moving parts in politics.
I read foxnews, CNN and MSNBC online each morning. In this way, I see the arguments from both sides, CNN is more towards the middle, with a left lean IMO. The problem is so much reporting is just like what Trump did to Hillary Clinton “She is the worst person that I have ever met in my life.” Go to MSNBC “Tump is the worst.” Go to Fox “Obama is the worst.” So we start talking in absolutes. So and so is Hitler. Now, I think there are good lessons to learn from Hitler and his party, things to watch out for, but equating everyone that we disagree with as a liar, or the worst person ever is toxic IMO.
I voted for Donald Trump. My #1 issue was to have a more conservative judge picked to potentially protect issues that are important to me. My next issue was that republicans were’nt doing what they say they are going to do – so they can get elected. Another issue was the trump appeared to be an Anti-Politician, saying his opinion on things and not sugar coating it. Better to know what he’s thinking, even if it’s crass, than for him to say what you want to hear, with no intention of following through. One of the last issues was that I didn’t trust Hillary.
My next issue was that republicans were’nt doing what they say they are going to do – so they can get elected.
I get this, and Trump has done some things that he promised throughout the campaign. I am curious to see how this healthcare issue shakes out for him if it doesn’t pass. He’s now saying that they either need to pass it or move on, and leave Obamacare as is. He vowed to repeal the ACA, so that would be a huge departure from one of his major campaign promises.
Another issue was the trump appeared to be an Anti-Politician, saying his opinion on things and not sugar coating it. Better to know what he’s thinking, even if it’s crass, than for him to say what you want to hear, with no intention of following through.
His opinion in the moment maybe, but it shifts wildly. He has been on both sides of every single issue, often jumping back and forth. I don’t think he has a clear picture of where he stands on anything, and his pandering (especially to the evangelicals) is as bad as any politician in recent memory.
One of the last issues was that I didn’t trust Hillary.
But you trust Trump when he has done nothing but lie, openly and patently, over the past 18 months. What gave you any reason to believe Trump would work in your best interests or that of the country? This Russia issue appears to have legs, and he may very well end up being the biggest traitor in our history (move over Benedict Arnold). What will be your response then?
Also, the Nunes story is funny, because this “incidental chatter” occurred during foreign surveillance. If Obama actually made an effort to tap Trump Tower that is a problem, but there is still no evidence, and y’all are grasping at straws.
So you are speaking in absolutes? Trump is now worse than benedict arnold? Trump has desserted and led an army of soldiers against an army that he used to command?
Good Hell, get a hold of yourself.
Out of all my comments that’s the only one you choose to respond to? If he worked with an adversarial foreign power to rig an election that made him the leader of the United States then he’s ABSOLUTELY far worse than Arnold. Arnold was one man with very limited power, and Trump is now at the top of the foodchain. Who needs a reality check?
Yeah. Out of all your comments, that’s what I chose to respond to, just like you cherry picked my quotes. You didn’t address my #1 reason that I voted for trump. You’re picking a fight against my opinion on why I voted for Trump. And you didn’t address the #1 issue. Then, you fell into the trap of speaking in absolutes. “Trump has done nothing but lie.” Nothing, really? What if I said, “You’re always speaking in absolutes?”
I gave an honest and open description of why I voted for Donald Trump, and you’re here to pick a fight.
No, I gave my reasons why I think your reasons are bulls**t. There’s no arguing your #1 reason, so I ignored it. The other ones are completely irrational in my opinion, as I laid out, except for maybe the first one I addressed. As far as your claim about absolutes, c’mon man. I said he does nothing but lie. Do we really need to argue about some hyperbole? Of course nobody lies 100% of the time, but I’ll be damned if Trump doesn’t get awfully close.
I didn’t pick a fight to pick a fight. Your points are not unique, and that is the problem. I’ve heard each spouted thousands upon thousands of times by Trump supporters. What they are illogical, and I can’t see how any informed, educated, and intelligent voter such as yourself could possibly believe them.
IT’S MY OPINION, ASSHOLE! IT’S MINE! Get over it. I was sick of republicans, and I was willing to roll the dice on a non politician. What’s wrong with that? And I didn’t like the alternative in Hillary Clinton. Holy S**t man. What’s illogical about that?
Are you saying Hillary Clinton was the logical choice?
Yes, I’m saying ANY of the candidates would have been a more logical choice, and I think history will prove this. As much as I despise Ted Cruz I cannot argue that he was qualified for the position. Same goes for any of the rest, with the exception of maybe Ben Carson, but at least he’s not a narcissistic megalomaniac, who lies like we pass gas, and quite possibly tied to hostile foreign countries.
Lastly, Hammer, this is a political discussion. If you’re going to give your two cents be prepared for others to chime in. Every single time I comment on any political posts you make you end up calling me a name, and acting as if I have no right or reason to say anything about what you just posted. Maybe you’re just not suited for civil discourse involving your deeply cherished beliefs, and should avoid politics altogether.
If my #1 issue was the SCJ’s, was Hillary Clinton the logical choice for me? No.
The choices were Hillary Clinton, or Donald Trump. Not Ted Cruz, Not Bernie. I voted for Donald over Hillary and I told you the reasons why. I also voted for Bernie Sanders in the democratic primary because I thought he was the best choice of the remaining 3 likely winners. I did not vote for Donald Trump in the republican primary. I have said nothing of my current view of Donald Trump and his presidency thus far.
This topic started as a list of annoying political behaviors. I provided some of my perspectives and I gave you my opinion of why I voted for Donald Trump. You do not respect my opinion, I get that…you’re here to tell me I’m wrong, I understand your method. This method of winning me to your side of the logic is probably 0 for 10 billion. In fact, it likely drives people more into their beliefs. So to the extent that you want a political fight when no political fight has been started, to the extent that you want to call people ignorant, ill informed, and lump and generalize people into your pre packaged categories, then you sir are an asshole IMO.
Lastly, AZswayze, if you’re being an asshole be prepared for others to call you an asshole.
You can call me whatever you like, but you get riled so easily that I’m not sure these discussions are good for your health. All of us are giving our opinions, so I’m not sure why you are so angry that somebody gave an opinion on your opinions. As to your Hillary comment, you may be right. Rational might have been a slightly better choice than logical. Voting for Trump was irrational, not illogical (not much of a difference, if any, but it sounds a little more correct).
Just don’t be so ignorant yourself and say that all Trump supporters are ignorant or racists. A lot of people in America are tired of this bulls**t from the left
There you go painting me as a leftist again when I have stated countless times that I voted AGAINST him because he’s f**king nuts. It had nothing to do with policy, and everything to do with competence. Like I said earlier, labeling in cases like this is a blatant attempt to write somebody’s arguments off by lumping them in with a group you dislike.
You voted for a man who is either insane or has dementia. There was clearly something wrong with him prior to the election, and he’s done nothing since to make me think he’s all there. You voted for a man who is putting America at grave risk every second he sits in office. The mere act of voting for Trump to lead the nation demonstrates, at best, a lack of rational thought (at that time). That’s just my opinion man, so if you comment on it you’re an asshole.
That comment by Nunes is fairly indicative of they whole problem with politics today. Let’s look at the statement. He basically says that some Trump associates were picked up on surveillence as secondary sources. Well duh. If you are talking to people from other countries US citizens are likely to be picked up in these incidental ways, that’s why the rules against unmasking the US participant who wasn’t a target are so strict. Secondly, most of these intercept are totally benign, meaning it’s just normal business. So the fact that someone is picked up can be totally innocent. This in no way vindicates Trump’s claim of being a target of surveillence. It is also being blown completely out of proportion by the news media on both sides. Each side is trying to have an “gotcha” moment instead of doing their jobs.
It was interesting on the Sunday talk shows that CBS (I think) had a piece on just how polarized congress had become. Where there use to be some overlap in both houses over the past few years each side has withdrawn to the point that it is virtually impossible to have any kind of bipartisian agreement.
It was very interesting to hear Ezekiel Emmanuel complaining that the Republicans hadn’t brought any democrats into the process, consider how the Obama administration failed to do so in the first place.
Agreeing with you is always so sickening, but I think you’re right.
Sickening?
“Blown out of proportion by both side”? Remember, it was Trump who made the accusation that he was wiretapped by Obama. The news just reported it. And rightfully stated that there was no evidence. It was Fox News that was trying to make a “gotcha” moment out of the Nunes thing.
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