Interesting how Drumpf left off Saudi Arabia from the terrorist list…..

[User Suspended]

Dollar, dollar bills y’ all

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/trump-muslim-ban-excludes-countries-linked-businesses-article-1.2957956

[sacute]

The list of those seven nations under the Trump executive order on refugees was first developed by Obama during his term when he applied it to Iraq refugees.  There are a total of 40 majority Muslum nations that are not on the list.  Saudi Arabia is not on the list because the terrorist threat has morphed more to ISIS, Boca Haram, Al Nusrah et al. who occupy and train in those seven countries.  

[Utah]

Totally convienent, right? Gives you a great comeback while ignoring that the terrorists who have killed Americans on US Soil have come from the countries left off the list…and have Trump brand companies in them.

It’s fantastic.

I love the right: Let’s not get it right, let’s just say, “Well, Obama did it, so it’s ok.”

lol.

Let’s look at some facts:

The terrorists that have done the most damage on US Soil come from the countries Trump has left off the list. If that is the case, why even have the list?

Also, why is it that the countries that have Trump Buisness Corp dealings are also left off the list? Again, why even have the list? We haven’t blocked any of the terrorists at all.

This is nothing more than a PR stunt to get the low level Trump supporters all fired up.

“Yeah, we did it! ‘Merica is gonna git so dang safe now! Hell, yes, Jesus the baby Lord Savior, Trump gonna save us all!”

[sacute]

Sounds like a rant to me.

[zeous]

Why do you want them to come here so badly?  Are you Muslim, by chance?

[Utah]

Maybe, because I see the value in bringing over diversity and culture. I know that the more ideas you get in a room, the better the final result. Because I am a Christian, and I believe in being Christ-like and helping out ALL who need help (go read up on the good Samaritan if you need a refresher). Because I am smart enough to realize that not all muslims are terrorists and some muslims are just trying to get to a country where they can have religious freedoms and an opportunity to better themselves. My father was an immigrant and my mother’s mom was as well. And I could go on and on and on. 

[zeous]

Are all ideas good ideas?  So if someone brings the idea to the room that everyone who disagrees is fair game to murder or rape, does it make the room better?

If someone leaves a country where 99% are the same religion, can they be said to be seeking religious freedom by practicing the same religion upon arrival?

Because people have immigrated in the past, does that make all immigrants the same?

Again, why should the criminals in Washington be bombing them in the first place?  Why aren’t you triggered about that?

[PDXUteFan]

Insert .gif here of Randy from South Park yelling “I thought this was America, isn’t this America?”

Seriously, we’re a country that was literally founded on escaping persecution to have freedom from an oppressive nation. The whole idae of “America” is a place where you can be free and pursue your idea of a dream…freely. That, in part, includes people who have been forced from their countries/homes for one reason or another. 

A better question would be “why the f**k would you NOT want to help hundreds of thousands of people who are suffering horribly and trying to make a better life for themselves”? 

[Utahute72]

OK, but there is solid evidence that terrorists have infiltrated that refugee steam and even under the Obama administration the agencies involved in doing the background checks said they were having difficulty doing those checks because of the lack of records and intel.  So it seems to me slowing the process is a better route that speeding it up as the Obama administration wanted to do.

[UtahFanSir]

Okay, I can buy that. So why not put a moritorium on for say 120 to 180 days to all Muslims until the USG can tighten up their ability to screen properly? Why be selective? Why do this against the poorest Muslim countries from where terrorists have not come? Why do this in the name of stopping terrorists when clearly that is a third or fourth level concern here? I’m somewhat okay with the intent, but the execution here drips in hypocrisy. I feel like I’ve been sold a bridge to nowhere.

[zeous]

How do you know they share those values?

I think we should help them by getting the criminals in Washington and Brussels to stop bombing them so they can live peacefully in their homes.  Why don’t YOU want the wars to stop????

[Utahute72]

As I understand the order, that’s exactly what the ban is. A temporary cease in allowing travel for nine countries, except Syria which is more open ended. The idea is to review the protocols under which green cards and visa are granted. I think the biggest issue I have is that they stopped people mid travel with those two documents in hand. It should have been implemented going forward.

[Utahute72]

Dang this site is fluky this morning.

[pedro]

You’re making an awful lot of assumptions.  I don’t know where the truth lies, so I would appreciate reading your sources particularly regarding Trumps business dealings.  

I know many of the 911 hijackers were of Saudi citizenship, but where were they born?  Do we know?  (honest question)

Another thing to consider is that he couldn’t do business with many of those countries due to political embargos and the like.  

[UtahFanSir]

To Answer Your Question…

You can look this stuff up on a new invention called Google. Go figure.

Now of the countries banned in the Trump EO, how many had terroists from there in the 911 attack, or any attack on US soil?

What does that tell us?

[pedro]

Thanks, however that didn’t really help me.  Nationality and birth country does not necessarily correlate.  I know many of them claimed Saudi citizenship and nationality.  But that doesn’t give me any insight as to where they grew up, under what influences (political and religious).  Where they were born and raised would give us much better insight.

 

 

[UtahFanSir]

Homework, you can do some homework.

 

Background Checks on 911 Hijackers…

[Anonymous]

♦ President Obama puts six month ban on Iraqi refugees in 2011 and media…. crickets.
♦ President Trump puts 120 day suspension on Syrian refugees 2017… media explodes.

♦ Obama selects 7 countries for enhanced visa security policy and media… crickets.
♦ Trump uses Obama law, same Obama DHS policy, and same 7 countries; for a 90-day visa suspension and media explodes.

Maybe you should stop watching Rachel Madcow?

Ever dawn on you that Trump would never invest in the banned countries for the mere fact that it would be a stupid business decision?  And you call us the uneducated right?  I’ve forgotten more than you’all ever know.

[96GradAlum]

@WestSlopeCutthroat since you believe that climate change is a hoax, I automatically discount everything you say 🙂

[SkinyUte]

♦ President Obama puts six month ban on Iraqi refugees in 2011 and media…. crickets.
♦ President Trump puts 120 day suspension on Syrian refugees 2017… media explodes.

Yep, these two situations are totally the same thing.  Oh wait, no they’re not.  Not even close.

1. Much narrower focus: The Obama administration conducted a review in 2011 of the vetting procedures applied to citizens of a single country (Iraq) and then only to refugees and applicants for Special Immigrant Visas (SIVs), created by Congress to help Iraqis (and later Afghans) who supported the United States in those conflicts. The Trump executive order, on the other hand, applies to seven countries with total population more than 130 million, and to virtually every category of immigrant other than diplomats, including tourists and business travelers.

2. Not a ban: Contrary to Trump’s Sunday statement and the repeated claims of his defenders, the Obama administration did not “ban visas for refugees from Iraq for six months.” For one thing, refugees don’t travel on visas. More importantly, while the flow of Iraqi refugees slowed significantly during the Obama administration’s review, refugees continued to be admitted to the United States during that time, and there was not a single month in which no Iraqis arrived here. In other words, while there were delays in processing, there was no outright ban.
3. Grounded in specific threat: The Obama administration’s 2011 review came in response to specific threat information, including the arrest in Kentucky of two Iraqi refugees, still the only terrorism-related arrests out of about 130,000 Iraqi refugees and SIV holders admitted to the United States. Thus far, the Trump administration has provided no evidence, nor even asserted, that any specific information or intelligence has led to its draconian order.

4. Orderly, organized process: The Obama administration’s review was conducted over roughly a dozen deputies and principals committee meetings, involving Cabinet and deputy Cabinet-level officials from all of the relevant departments and agencies — including the State, Homeland Security and Justice Departments — and the intelligence community. The Trump executive order was reportedly drafted by White House political officials and then presented to the implementing agencies a fait accompli. This is not just bad policymaking practice, it led directly to the confusion, bordering on chaos, that has attended implementation of the order by agencies that could only start asking questions (such as: “does this apply to green card holders?”) once the train had left the station.

5. Far stronger vetting today: Much has been made of Trump’s call for “extreme vetting” for citizens of certain countries. The entire purpose of the Obama administration’s 2011 review was to enhance the already stringent vetting to which refugees and SIV applicants were subjected. While many of the details are classified, those rigorous procedures, which lead to waiting times of 18-24 months for many Iraqi and Syrian refugees, remain in place today and are continually reviewed by interagency officials. The Trump administration is, therefore, taking on a problem that has already been (and is continually being) addressed.

[Newbomb Turk]

There you go, confusing people with facts again.

[SkinyUte]

Don’t worry, I’m sure WSC will be along shortly to tell us that it’s all invalid because he made a bajillion dollars before 10am today and therefore we’re all stupid.

Or something.

[AZswayze]

This may be a valid point, but it’s the exact reason Trump should have put his businesses into a blind trust or sold them off to begin with, for his own sake. As POTUS, every move he makes is going to be scrutinized, but he has compounded the issue tenfold.

[zeous]

Jeez… 47 Muslim countries?  How many are theocracies?

Does nobody else get the feeling this is neo-colonialism between Europe and the intent to send millions here?

[Utah]

He only blocked people from countries that he isn’t holding business operations at. 

I’ve said it 100 times. He duped the uneducated right. He is going to try to do what Putin has done, mainly take his weatlh from 4 Billion to 40 in four years. It’s simple Reagonomics. Screw the middle class and down to hoard the wealth. 

[sacute]

Why would he want to do business operations in Libya, Syria, Yemen et al. when they are already are structurally decimated, have fleeing populations and in short are war torn?  Not much business opportunity.  Perhaps, Saudi Arabia has more wealth for business transactions.

[sacute]

This may be speculation and opinion on your part and is not fact based.

[PlainsUte]

16 of 19 9-11 terrorists came from Saudi Arabia so better not be referencing 9-11 when explaining this order.

[Utahute72]

Because the countries targeted were countries named as Terrorist Countries by the Obama Administration.  Saudi Arabia was not on that list.  The administration also said they could add counties later.  That said the implementation of this thing was really badly handled.

[leftyjace]

I vote that he add Utah County, if he’s going to add counties later.

[GameForAnyFuss]

He’d never add Utah County. That place is right up his alley, and 90% of them voted for him.