[chinngiskhaan]

Are we overlooking Swan? He’s been one of our best position coaches and recruiters.

[COUte]

I met him in like 2007 and added him on Facebook early when it first became a thing. It was sad to see his slow digression through his very bizarre Facebook posts into a very mentally troubled man. At first when he would post crazy things friends and family would get after him or tell him to get help. After several years of it, everyone stopped responding. I’m kind of amazed he lasted as long as he did because he was clearly not right in the head. Absolutely warrior on the field though who has no business even playing the position, let alone starting at DT. He definitely held his own and then some in the trenches with guys much bigger than him.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Beach there is no argument that independence hurt BYU. If BYU goes 5-7 again last year do they get Lyons and some of their other top high school recruits? Sitake was a lame duck coach until Hill showed up then suddenly he is great. Recruiting before Hill and after Hill? Recruiting with more $$$ and a relaxed HC?

The biggest factors to ByU rise was Hill and $$$. Utah put all their eggs in the Rising basket and it didn’t work out simple. Does BYU beat Utah the last two times with Rising. Does our recruiting go up if we win the Big12 last year with Rising? Lots of hypotheticals that can change the direction of a program.

Getting in the Big 12 was a huge boost for BYU fans and the excitement has brought in lots of $$$. Utah joining the Big 12 was not a move that brought excitement and $$$. Vanderbilt is on equal ground with Alabama conference and $$ distribution. Name brand and NIL money is not equal.

As Whitt has stated many times the deepest pockets will have the best chance to win. How many non LDS kids show up at BYU to play basketball and football if not for $$$. Pre NIl vs current NIL? Equal playing field means coaching, NIL money, fan base excitement, facilities and obviously conference affiliation. Without KY and $$$ BYU basketball would he equal to Utah BB. Getting Jensen and more $$$ will level the playing field in BB.

[Tony (admin)]

This is the way.

[Tony (admin)]

Now you’ve done it…

[PhiladelphiaUte]

Utah was already beating ybu-p regularly prior to moving up to the Pac-12.

#NarrativeFail

[PhiladelphiaUte]

Who says?

YOU do! By your posting history.

You might be able to lie to your fellow zoobs. They’re not smart, and will believe anything. But that ploy won’t work with us. We verify.

Busted zoob.

[PhiladelphiaUte]

You absolutely ARE a zoob, and it’s as obvious as DT says!

So why DO you insist on maintaining this transparent charade? Is it because you’re extremely nervous about the national media hyping up Utah, whilst simultaneously dismissing ybu-p, so pecking out fantasies of Utah’s demise is the only catharsis you have left?

You zoobies are so dishonest, desperate, and insecure. You must really hate yourselves.

Sad zoob.

[RoboUte]

I have no insight on the rest but the Weber state offer tidbit is a fact. Related details and all.

[BeachUte]

How doesn’t it make sense? We have a long history of Utah and BYU being on equal conference footing and when they were, the rivalry was much more competitive than it was when Utah played in the Pac-12. That’s just a fact.

In 2021, Utah had the 32nd ranked class in the nation according to 247Sports. In that same season, BYU had the 74th ranked class.

Show me any time when Utah and BYU were members of the same conference where Utah was ranked 42 spots ahead of BYU in recruiting rankings. You won’t find one.

Utah consistently out-recruited BYU while in the Pac-12. That’s a fact.

Utah consistently earned more than BYU in the Pac-12.

But in the MWC? It was a lot closer recruiting-wise.

And financially? Utah wasn’t hand-over-fist raking it in more than BYU.

Now I do agree with you that the NIL is a different beast. But I don’t necessarily trust it’s one where Utah will find an advantage over BYU with it.

And for recruiting? I don’t necessarily think Utah’s recruiting has dropped off that much. They’re currently ranked 50th. The last class was 39th, which isn’t far off that number I pointed out in 2021. I suspect by the end, Utah will crawl into the low 40s recruiting-wise for 2026. The difference, though, is BYU.

BYU’s 2025 class finished 42nd, just a few spots behind Utah. They went from 42 spots behind Utah a few years ago, to now just three spots or whatever in this previous class. I think a large part of that is due to their joining the Big 12. Independence was not good for their program. They lost a lot of ground on Utah during the 13 or so years they were independent.

So, it’s not a surprise that BYU’s national ranking for 2026 in recruiting is currently 19th. Some of that is absolutely due to their great season. Oddly, they’re currently at where Utah was in the 2023 rankings – so a year after their first Pac-12 title and Rose Bowl berth.

But that’s my point: BYU in no universe would have the 19th ranked class if they were still independent. They just wouldn’t. BYU’s best class from 2011 to 2022 was 56th – their last year as an independent team. Their average class ranking according to 247Sports, was 68th in the Indy era. Most years, Utah was in their 30s, sometimes dipping into the 40s. But they generally had 20 to 30 spots on BYU.

There’s no denying BYU has seen a significant uptick in recruiting. As I said, some of that is directly related to their surprise season last year – but it’s also because they’re now back in a legitimate conference and not toiling away in independence like they when Utah was in the Pac-12.

So, yes, I think the ground has leveled a bit. Your Ohio State comment isn’t really relevant because both Utah and BYU will likely be vying for the top of the Big 12 – or at least toward the top – most years. In the Big 10? They wouldn’t be equal to Ohio State. You’re absolutely right. That’s why we’re localizing it to the Big 12.

And to your last point: all those can create a new cycle. But absolutely, Utah joining the Pac-12 and BYU going indy ushered in a new cycle in this rivalry. We saw it play out as Utah went 9-1 vs BYU as a member of the Pac-12. We saw it play out in recruiting, as Utah vastly out-recruited the Cougars year-after-year, despite some leaner years from Utah’s perspective (2012, 2013, 2017). That was absolutely a new cycle in the rivalry – where BYU was becoming vastly uncompetitive head-to-head. To the point that I think Utah actually overlooked the Cougars in a lot of these games (like 2018, when they had already locked up the school’s first Pac-12 title game appearance and fell behind by like three scores).

I don’t see how that cycle can continue when there’s evidence already that BYU is better positioned today than they were five years ago. The truth is, their 2020 season was great too – and it didn’t see near the boon in recruiting that they’re experiencing right now. So, I don’t buy it’s just their 11-2 campaign driving that top-20 class at the moment. I think it’s factors that indicate BYU is better positioned than they were five years ago when going 11-1 netted them the 56th best recruiting class in the nation.

That’s all I am saying. I think we’re in a new cycle. I think it’ll be a similar cycle to what we saw pre-Pac-12. You know, the last time Utah and BYU were in the same conference.

It doesn’t mean I think BYU is set to dominate – it just means I don’t expect Utah to go 9-1 against BYU over the next ten games and to be honest, I suspect they’ll have some tough losses … just as we experienced in the MWC (when Utah lost to BYU three out of four seasons after their four-game win streak ended).

That’s it. It’ll be much more even than I think a lot of fans are expecting and both programs have different advantages. Utah with not having to deal with the honor code and BYU with their NIL likely being more plentiful right now than Utah. But BYU was on a collision course to irrelevance before the Big 12 came calling and I think their being spared has started a new cycle in this rivalry. After all, Utah is a loss away from their first three-game losing streak in the rivalry since losing four-straight from 1989 to 1992. That feels different than nine straight like we saw from 2010 to 2019.

[Author]

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