Ute Fan Board

Utah
4

Dennis Lindsey

Hired in 2012.
Draft: Kevin Murphy – traded to GS allowing the greatest team ever to be created.
Transactions: Traded Harris for Williams. Signed Foye. Waived Raja Bell.
Let Millsap, Carroll and Jefferson walk for nothing.

2013:
Draft: Traded for Trey Burke. Traded for Gobert.
Transactions: traded Murphy and Foye to allow GS to assemble the greatest team ever.
Hired Snyder

2014:
Draft: Exum, Hood, Stokes
Transactions: Let Hayward shop for his own deal instead of 4 year maxing him, which allowed him to leave a year early. There is no excuse for not having Hayward on the team last year. Signed Booker. Traded Kanyer for not much.

2015:
Draft: Trey Lyles
Transactions: signed Neto and Ingles.

2016:
Draft: Prince
Transactions: Traded Prince to Atl for Hill instead of Teague. Traded Burke away for nothing. Signed Joe Johnson.

2017:
Draft: Traded Lyles and pick for Mitchell. Traded Josh Hart for Bradley.
Transactions: Traded 2018 first round pick for Rubio. Traded Hood for Crowder. Signed Royce O’Neal.

Key Players lost: Millsap, Carroll, Hayward
Key Players added: Mitchell, Gobert

Playoffs: 2 times (2017, 2018)
No Playoffs: 4 times (I think: 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016)

Out of a grading scale of “outstanding, satisfactory, undetermined or poor” I’d rate him as “satisfactory”.

Before Mitchell, I would have graded him as “poor”. Good thing Denver called him and wanted Lyles over Mitchell, right? I said Lindsey was on the hot seat before last season.

Losing Hayward was unacceptable. There is no excuse for that. First, he should have maxed Hayward for four years, knowing the cap was going up. He dropped the ball on that. Second, when Hayward asked for a trade in the summer of 2016, he should have gotten a pick from Boston. Can you imagine if we had Brown or Tatum on this team? The Hayward situation was a colossal f**k up. Any other team would have seriously considered firing him over that.

Now? I give him this year and next. If he can’t bag a third player to go with Mitchell, then we might be in big trouble.

  • ironman1315
    4 2

    Whatever man. It’s apparent you dislike anything to do with the Miller’s Lindsey is easily top quartile GM.

    • Utah
      1

      Going to the playoffs twice 2 out of 6 years is a top 25% GM? Losing Millsap and Hayward, who are two of the top 5 paid players in basketball, is a top GM?

      Lindsey took a borderline playoff team, let three of their top four players walk for nothing to tank. He then let his top player walk for nothing. That got him 2 playoffs in 6 years. Teams that went to the playoffs twice as often (or more) as Lindsey has gone to the playoffs:

      Heat – this includes having LeBron, losing LeBron and Wade, then rebuilding again.
      Spurs – Again, this includes them losing arguably the greatest player in all time and not missing a beat.
      Pacers – They lost Paul George, a better player than anyone we have, and still going to the playoffs 5 times in 6 years.
      Grizzlies – they went 5 times.
      Warriors – They were good before Dennis Lindsey. Because of Lindsey, they became great.
      Bulls – 4 times.
      Thunder – 4 trips. They lost Durant in this time period and replaced him with George.
      Rockets – Ainge or Morey are probably 1 and 2 GM’s in the league.
      Clippers – 5 times
      Hawks – 5 times
      Celtics – 5 times
      Bucks – 4 times
      Blazers – 5 times. And this is with losing one of their top 2 players.
      Wizards – 4 times
      Raptors – 4 times
      Cavs – 4 times

      That is 16 teams that have been twice as successful since 2012 than Lindsey. That is over half. If you add in teams that have been to the playoffs three times in that span? Then 18 teams have been more successful than Lindsey over that span. That is a looooooong ways from top 25% GM.

      It is very mediocre. Which is what I have said Lindsey is. Very mediocre, with some amazing luck tossed in.

      • chinngiskhaan
        5

        Utah,

        Clearly you are biased, and don’t know what you are talking about.

        You are honestly claiming that Lindsey letting go two of the 5 highest paid players in the NBA is a bad thing? Are Millsap and Heyward top 5 NBA players? NO NO NO. Are they top 10? NO NO NO NO NO. Are they top 20? NOPE. Top 30? NOPE AGAIN.

        Lindsey not overpaying for players is not a good thing, not a bad one. Of all of those draftees and transactions you listed, a good number of them have worked out in the Jazz’s favor.

        Try not to be an idiot.

        • chinngiskhaan
          1

          and I don’t even like the Jazz. I’ve been openly critical of Jazz homerism on the page.

        • Jazz were willing to overpay for Hayward.  They had an offer that was max contract.  Hayward was an all star and the best player on that current Jazz roster.  He was easily replaced by a rookie from out of no where. Then the second highest scorer from that playoff team in Hill was replaced by Rubio and the rise of Ingles.  Everyone had Utah as a lottery team. DL didn’t lose Hayward, Hayward wanted to play for Stevens no matter what.   It was mostly luck that sort of made the 2017-2018 season for the Jazz. 

          Listening more to what happened, Mitchell has said it wasn’t just Snyder recognizing special talent.  It was DL and the shooting coach(whose name escapes me).  Mitchell had pretty much no reputation for a three point shot, they added an arc to his shot and suddenly he becomes an outstanding weapon his rookie year.  His percentage is lower for other reasons but it improved more than anyone scouted other than DL and the Jazz organization.  

  • ironman1315
    5

    Dude, I deal with walls of text all day. I deal with people who omit facts everyday and ignore context everyday. I don’t need this from you.

  • ironman1315
    1

    Also what’s the source on Denever initiating the trade?

  • Tony
    9

    Larry K inducted into the hall of fame….

    The 2018 National Polish-American Sports Hall of Fame:

    ProudUte
    7

    Mitchell impresses me more an more.

    He was at the NBA draft last night and gave Allen a hug and welcomed him to the team.  I don’t know if Allen was a good pick or not, but Mitchell being there to welcome his new teammate is impressive.  Who does that?

    Mitchell is fully vested in the Jazz and making them a better team.  Mitchell was an unbelievable get for th Jazz.  He is amazing on and off the court.  I have not followed the Jazz much in recent years, but Mitchell is beginning to change that.

     

  • Utah
    3 4

    I’ve said this a thousand times: Mitchell’s dad is director of player relations for the New York Mets. 

    Mitchell knows what he is doing. He is creating a brand for himself. His father knows what he is doing. 

    The Jazz has better stay good because if not…

    I’d bet the Mitchell’s would LOVE for Donovan to be the savior of the Knicks. He would be THE FACE of NBA basketball. 

    • Stone
      2

      I agree that Mitchell is savy in that regard. Not sure if you are insinuating that his actions are a facade for branding purposes, but I think he is authentically a good person. I think he is real in his commitment to the team and love for the game. He acted the same at Louisville. The Jazz are lucky to have him because Mitchell would probably act the same way whereever he ended up getting drafted… he is simply a good kid. So, in that sense, I agree that the Jazz need to be proactive to keep him. And, I agree that his family would probably love to have him home playing for the Knicks, and it probably holds appeal for him, too.

      • Utah
        1 3

        I’m not saying that at all. I’m saying Mitchell will maximize his career, which is the smart thing to do.

        All im saying is don’t expect Mitchell to give any discounts because he loves Utah.

        He wants to win a title and make a ton of money. I’m sure he’d love to do that in Utah. But in three years, I’m sure he’d be happy taking his talents to NY and doing it there, making a lot more money along the way.

        Mitchell is from NY. I’m sure he grew up dreaming of winning a title in NY.

        My last comment: I’ve been a Jazz fan my whole life. I have freaking loved the Jazz. I’m not a big fan of the Millers at all. I don’t think they want to win a title, they want to make money. Their goal is to be a 5-7 team in the NBA, make money, and contend for a playoff spot.

        My allegiance is starting to sway from the Jazz to Gobert and Mitchell. If those two leave the Jazz, my fandom might follow them.

        • Stone

          Agreed. I am glad the Jazz drafted him. He has single-handedly rekindled my love for the Jazz.

        • BattleGroundUte
          1 2

          Jazz will have him for pretty much the same amount of time as they had Hayward. You have to bring talent to Utah to get him to win now. They want to contend for a title and you are a fool if you don’t think Lindsey is doing that right now. He did it for the Spurs another small market team. Smaller than Utah in fact. 

          • Utah
            2

            Good god man. Where did I say Lindsey isn’t trying to win? 

            I never said that. I said the Millers weren’t in it to win a title. BIG difference. 

            • noneyadb
              1

              Depends on which “Miller” we’re talking about. Larry spent a lot on the AK, DWill, Boozer team butt didn’t pan out because AK was never healthy and Sloan wouldn’t change his ways to use Korver correctly. Greg Miller was a compete failure and glad Gail took over ownership. Believe the Sloan, DWill, Al Jefferson, Burke, Corbin debacle was Greg’s doing.

            • BattleGroundUte
              1 1

              Who employs him?  Good hell man talk about trying to stretch the facts to fit your narrative of the Millers. 

              Last time I respond to you ever again I am sick of your own biases getting in the way of reality. I get it, you hate the Millers because they fit the narrative of rich LDS white folk that you despise. 

          • Utah
            1 1

            SA, They were a 50 win team, ranked for 1 year, drafted Duncan and after the Millers took Raul Lopez instead of Parker because they didn’t want to pay Parker (cheap), SA drafted Parker. Then got Ginoboli in the second round.

            If that is your plan….then damn. But then again, it may be Lindsey’s plan.

            I mean, look at the Gobert draft: Locke said we’d take Giannis and Gobert with our two picks. Instead we trade them for Burke. Whoops.

            Luckily, Denver let us trade for Gobert.

            Then, look at how we got Mitchell. Denver called US and said, “we like Lyles and we know you like Mitchell. What can we get done?”

            He was extremely lucky twice and has f**ked up the rest of the time. So, hopefully he brought that SA luck over with him.

            • ironman1315

              Luck is always part of the draft. What are Lindsey’s draft hits when compared to the rest of the league. That is the question you need to ask yourself.

              • Utah
                1 2

                Absolutely. I think drafting Mitchell saved his job. Before the Mitchell pick, he was a pretty s**tty GM. 

                BUT, Mitchell for him back to average. 

                • ironman1315
                  1 1

                  Dude. Just dude. Please show me how often the league hits out of the park hits with Rudy and Mitchell and then finds people like Ingles and gets people sees the potential of Rubio. Finds Joe Johnson. He is a fine GM. Probably in the top quartile of NBA GMs.

                • BattleGroundUte
                  1

                  I never thought I could read so many asinine comments in a row with thumbs up. 

                • Utah
                  2 2

                  You forgot to add Snyder into your argument. How about this: 

                  I think that Lindsey is extremely average if not a poor GM. I think that Snyder is a top 2 coach with Stevens in the NBA. 

                  Snyder turned Crowder, Millsap, Korver all into players that played well above what they should have played. He did the same with Hill, Favors, Ingles, O’Neal, Rubio and Hood. 

                  You can have Lindsey. I’ll take Snyder. And I’d bet that my teams would be better than yours 90% of the time. 

                • ironman1315
                  2

                  Who the Hell hired Snyder. Oh that’s right DL.

  • BattleGroundUte
    6 4

    Jazz pick Grayson Allen

    Too much love for Duke scum in Utah. Well the biggest pro for this pick is he won’t be tripping any Jazz players. 

  • Thlete
    3 4

    When we will learn to avoid Duke players? I hope he works out but right now it’s really tough to accept that DB with his dirty past. 

  • Pace Manyung
    7

  • Utah5410
    5 3

    Stoked. Allen is a stud.

  • Tony
    4 1

    I turned in my Jazz fan card when Stockton left so don’t know much about the NBA. I just remember that dude is a Dirty Douche with two big D’s. Hope he can class himself up. 

    • BattleGroundUte
      3 1

      Come back Donovan Mitchell is one of those once in a lifetime players.  

  • GameForAnyFuss
    4

    The Jazz managed to find the one white guy in the draft and pick him up, huh? I’m shocked. 😉

    • Stone
      3

      Multiple “white” guys were drafted ahead of Grayson. Can you believe those teams? What idiots!

  • chinngiskhaan
    2

    Duke scum? When was the last time Utah drafted a duke player that didn’t work out???

    • BattleGroundUte
      1 2

      Uhh Rodney Hood…Jazz did well IN SPITE of him.  

      • chinngiskhaan
        4

        That’s quite the hindsight you got there buddy. He exceeded expectations for the Jazz. You know it’s true. He was good enough that people expected him to be the leading scorer coming into this season 

        • BattleGroundUte
          1

          Most knew he was being traded. You are a fool if you didn’t know that. He doesn’t play defense and you can’t play for Snyder if you don’t at least try to play defense. 

  • ironman1315
    1 1

    The fact that the denizens or idiot board hate this pick makes me think he’ll be fine.

  • Stone
    2

    For where the Jazz were drafting (pick 21), I think they did excellent. Grayson is a competitor and a winner. He brings toughness and someone that wants to make winning shots when things are on the line. The Jazz need someone like that to complement Mitchell. Plus, his athletiscism is underrated. His combine numbers were exceptional (one of the best vertical leaps). I can see this turning out really well for the Jazz. Loved seeing Mitchell embrace him during the interview.

    • Grayshirt
      2

      Oh man, I hope Mitchell’s demeanor will rub off on Allen.  Because my initial reaction to this pick was contempt.  I loath Duke basketball and to me, Grayson was Duke personified.

  • PlainsUte

    So it looks like Free Jetta Emery will be back in time for the Utah game

    Actually will play first against the Aggies.

    https://www.ksl.com/?sid=46347297&nid=272

  • BattleGroundUte
    3 1

    Amazing story of sacrifice and stupendousness. 

    • Tony
      5

      And Volkswagens. 

  • Tony
    6

    I think the muss needs to have a giant Jetta photo ready to go, like those big head ones.

    • PlainsUte

      Will the Muss have a block of seats at the Beehive Classic?  Agree lots of good signage opportunities, Jetta, VW logo, Punchy the Hawaiian Punch mascot, etc.

      Punchy

      • Tony

        I assume so.

  • Puget Ute
    2

    That is actually kind of fun.  They need to hassle him relentlessly.  Make the little bitch Emory whine, the way they made Sean Miller whine when they chanted “FBI! FBI! FBI!” at him.

    • Wow. This suddenly got real…little bitch?

      • Puget Ute

        That’s nothing. You can only guess what his ex-wife says about him.

  • I’m glad he’ll be back, especially from the basketball perspective. BYU-Provo is a better team without him.

  • dystopiamembrane

    How are you all feeling about our team this year? Competitive in Pac-12 play?

  • UteDownUnder
    2

    Ranking the Utes schedule

    I found it interesting, and quite telling that BYU is the second easiest game in the schedule.Athlon article

  • BattleGroundUte
    4

    I think it is embarrassing for Utah more than them. Usually their November games are straight up diarrhea in recent history.  We get to feel how it is to end on a sad note by playing them. 

    Larry Scott and Chris Hill got straight up pantsed by Holmoe on this. 

  • PlainsUte
    2

    On paper, yes, the Utes have been winning, but need to really put them away like LSU did.

  • ironman1315
    1

    I hope we pick off the QB du juor 15 times. Much better than 15 sacks.

    • FtheY

      Why don’t we just do the pick off the quarterback of the day? 

      • ironman1315

        Because they will have to replace the QB each quarter. I am thinking 4 in the first. 4 in the second. 3 in the third. and 4 in the fourth. No QB can stand with those crappy numbers. 😉

        • FtheY

          Haha

  • homer
    1 1

    Will Whittingham hire

    After he’s fired/resigns as BYU’s head coach, will Kyle rehire his old friend Kalani Sitake?

  • PlainsUte
    6

    might help recruiting somewhat, but would rather he not

  • BattleGroundUte
    3

    He hired GA after he did some pretty harmful s**t so I don’t see why he wouldn’t with Sitake. 

    Sitake was an idiot taking that job. Maybe like two more years at another school after OSU and he gets a head coaching job outside of the butthole of Utah. 

    • Utah
      1

      What did Gary do that was so harmful? 

  • Utah
    8

    Sure. BUT, who do you fire? Shah is one of the top CB coaches in the country. Scalley is a better DC than Sitake. Our LB’ers are more talented and have performed better under Ena than under Sitake. Andersen is a better coach than Sitake. 

    So, that leaves Powell. Powell is really starting to round off into a really, really good recruiter. If he closes on some of the hawaii kids that he is recruiting this year, then

    What good does Kalani bring? 

    Since Kalani has left, our defense is better, our recruiting is better, less drama around the team, and our coaches are cheaper (remember, we were going to pay Kalani over $800,000 to stay on as DC). 

    I don’t see a reason why we’d bring him back. 

    The real question is does Scalley take the BYU job after this year? We know he needs to leave before he can be head coach. Would he do that? I don’t think he’d be that dumb. I think he’d try to go coach in Texas or California as a HC…somewhere like Fresno or Baylor. 

    • KiYi-Ute
      3

      You mean Morgan “I hate those pricks” Scalley?

      I don’t see him going to the TDS.

    • Puget Ute

      Scalley was making more as an assistant at Utah than byu-P offered him to be their DC. There is zero chance he takes a job there.

      • Utah
        3

        Their schedules will preclude any intelligent coach from coaching there. Their schedules are too hard. They don’t recruit well enough to win with those schedules. It’s why Roscoe left. 

        No coach will last more than 3-4 years there until they readjust expectations and realize their ceiling with these schedules is 6-8 wins. 

        If BYU was smart, they’d go back to a G5 conference and spend 65 million a year on athletics while their conference mates are spending 45. It’s what they do best. 

        At that point, it’s a great job to take. 

        • Puget Ute

          At that point it would be a great career move.  As of right now, it is a career dead end.

  • Whitt on the new redshirt rule

    247 Sports has some killer articles.

    There’s a lot to it now. There’s a lot of strategy behind it,” Whittingham said. “Practicing — where typically you’d take your redshirts and send them down to scout team and let them serve as the [opposing] offense or the defense as the case may be, it’s not really as cut and dry as it once was. Now you’ve got these guys that are they going to redshirt or are they not [that have to be] ready to get in the game just in case.

    This will hurt and help Utah basically.

  • wcrunner
    1

    Glad to see Lynn Wothy articles again.

    • wcrunner

      Oops.  Worthy.

  • BattleGroundUte
    3

    Podcast with JJ Redick and Mitchell

    Mitchell says he doesn’t like Boston or Philley

    Pretty good podcast skip some of the opening. 

  • BattleGroundUte
    1

    One other thing was cool is he doesn’t care as much about the ROTY award. He won the ROTY as voted by the players so his perspective changed. 

    “Analysts don’t guard me…”

  • BattleGroundUte

    If you don’t listen to the whole thing listen from like 50 minutes to 56 or so. Mitchell talks about his desire to be efficient the guy who makes clutch shots. Like a Durant, Jordan or Kobe. Straight up chills. 

  • Parach-Ute
    3

    At Least the Women’s Basketball Team is Keeping Local Talent in State

    https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes/2018/06/20/utah-womens-basketball-lands-4-star-in-state-guard-kemery-martin/

    Exciting commitment for the lady Utes!