Does BYU have more NIL money than Utah in football?

[ProudUte]

I know BYU has invested more NIL money into their basketball program than possibly any college in the country. But, do they have the same kind of NIL money in football? I honestly have no clue. Many have posted in other threads that they have as much as four times the money that Utah has when it comes to football.

What is the truth? Do we really know the truth?

I certainly hope that they do not have four times the money we have. If this is true, we will not be able to compete with them on the field. They will be able to buy the best players and look the other way when it comes to the honor code. I think the only reason they did not look the other way when it came to Retzlaff is that it became public, and they had no choice but to do something because the leaders in Salt Lake would not let them ignore a public scandal.

[EagleMountainUte]

Considering the amount of money the church is spending on Social media influencers. I have no doubt that they have a giant chest of untaxed revenue that they can spend on college athletes.

[EagleMountainUte]

Hah wow. I usually don’t care about downvotes but what did I say that was factually untrue? Second part is speculative but it is absolutely a fact that the Church is paying social media influencers in major platforms.

[DataUte]

Athletic dept expenses are carefully kept separate. There could perhaps be some underlying infrastructure paid through CES (Church Education System) funds the board approves, but even facilities, etc. are not paid from church funds.

[EagleMountainUte]

Yeah probably the same accountants and money handlers that worked on their investment portfolio.

[Ute Dub]

Listen, I don’t care for BYU and its often arrogant culture, but your short argument is riddled with logical fallacies.

1) Argument from ignorance, and begging the question. “I have no doubt they have a giant chest of untaxed revenue.” So, churches are tax-exempt and receive tax-exempt donations. If they receive revenue, this is taxed and is not “untaxed,” as that would be illegal. Your use of nomenclature suggests something illicit or devious.

2) Hasty generalization and non Sequitur / False Case. The conclusion that churches are hoarding untaxed funds to pay college athletes doesn’t logically follow from influencer expenses. Could you please provide us with the dollar amounts the LDS Church spends on social media influencers? Using that logic, I could say anything, such as, “Considering the amount the church subsidizes for missions…or spends on church buildings. It does not logically infer that they have any interest in spending on college athletes, which I believe is what you are inferring.

I might like to see your complaint of “untaxed” revenue applied equally to Universities and their sports revenues. After all, isn’t the state and federal funding to the university directly hitting your paycheck as a reduction or as a liability through the national debt, whereas Joe Shmo’s donation to a church does not affect you directly?

[Holladay Ute]

Can you give me an example? I’d like to do more research on this myself. Please paste a link to a social media influencer that you know for a fact is being funded by the church.

[EagleMountainUte]

https://www.moregoodfoundation.org/

One of the organizations that takes church funds. You would have to see the algorithm plug they have been paying for over the last year or so when there has been a giant up tick in Mormon influencers on all of social media. It actually coincided with the Mormon housewives show was my observation.

The priestcraft of this religion is very apparent. (Deseret Book, City Creek, Investment antics) So spending church funds on NLI isn’t out of the question in my mind at all.

[Holladay Ute]

So it looks like the More Good Foundation is a 501(c)(3) organization that is independent from the church but which the church helps support financially through donations (they may or may not be a primary donor, but they are definitely not the only donor). By definition, it is a not-for-profit organization. So I’m not sure who is getting rich off of it? It looks like they help operate websites and manage social media pages. And it basically looks like a way for members of the church to share their positive experience within the church and to provide information about the church. I’m sure the funds donated by the church support the building/maintenance costs of those websites and social media pages. I’m not sure if those funds find their way directly to the social media influencers themselves? I would be shocked if you can prove that this is the case. Maybe the people themselves somehow make money from Facebook and Google for the views. I don’t know, but I highly doubt they are getting pass-through income from the church. This group does have a good score on a very reputable independent third party website that rates the integrity of 501(c)(3) organizations (https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/203385036). I will contact the More Good Foundation and ask if they pay the social media influencers directly, etc. and I’ll get back to you.

The Mormon Wives with Secret Lives show is not at all an accurate reflection of the culture, values, etc. within our church (and for what it’s worth, I used to know one of the people on that show). There’s also a ton of other misinformation about our church on the internet as well. So the church spends resources to help educate people and provide the church’s perspective on different issues. The church has always respected the free agency of individuals and it also encourages people to use their brain and study things out on their own. I think it’s totally fair and reasonable for an organization to spend money to educate and invite other people to learn more. Political organizations, educational institutions, healthcare institutions, etc. (basically any organization that exists) all spend a lot of money on education (or marketing, whatever you want to call it). I would not consider that priest craft, but to each his own.

Deseret Book is a for profit organization owned by the church. And I can appreciate why you or others might view that negatively. I would say a few things about it. First, it may be a for profit organization, but the church itself is a not-for-profit organization. Who is personally getting rich off of it? Second, I am certain they are abiding by laws and paying the appropriate taxes. Third, nobody is forcing or pressuring anybody to buy books, etc. from there. Fourth, as a member of the church, I think it’s great. I am happy there is a place where I can buy paintings of Jesus that I want to put up on my wall in my house. I don’t feel like I’m getting ripped off, and I don’t know of many places where I can find stuff like this that I want. Deseret Book, in my view, has had a really positive influence on my family and my house.

I would say the same things about the City Creek investment they made. Downtown (where the temple is located) is really important to the church. They wanted to create a wholesome environment next to their historical temple and make an investment in the process.

As for the investment arm of the church, called Ensign Peak, that invests the church’s assets. Yes, they are trying to make money for the church (which, again, is a not-for-profit institution). No, people are not personally getting rich off of it. I know people that work there. They are good people. They are buying Ferraris and flying in private jets. They make below average industry wages (within the investment management industry).

I can also understand why people might view this dynamic (the church trying to make money through investments) as negative. I don’t share that view though. I fully support the church investing its funds (and I am a full tithe payer). First of all, I believe in the principle of tithing (i.e. I believe that God wants me to pay tithing). The church clearly does not need all of the tithing that members pay. It’s about the principle itself, and I can understand why that might not jive w/ people who don’t believe God leads our church. The church also does not force people to pay tithing (just like it doesn’t force people to believe in the church). The church believes in saving. As a tithe payer, would I rather have the church sit on funds that don’t do anything (and lose value b/c of inflation)? Absolutely not. I would be mad if they did that. I am happy they try to invest it smartly. And b/c I know people who are doing the investing, I know that they take it very seriously and view it as a sacred responsibility and fiduciary duty. What do they does the church do w/ the money it makes on its investments? They do a lot of good things like help pay for people to get an education at places like BYU, the church is regularly one of the first relief organizations to the scene during disaster/emergency situations across the globe (right next to the Red Cross), etc. Anybody who understands anything about how an endowment works can appreciate the church’s mindset. For example, I have a family foundation and we spend 5% of our assets every year. We don’t spend 100% b/c we want the foundation to be around forever. We also invest the foundations assets so that they will grow (which means we can do more and more good with the assets over time). A lot of foundations have failed (as have the charitable organizations they supported who relied on them for survival) b/c they weren’t managed the way the church manages it’s funds. The church does a good job of saving and investing. And they more good things b/c of that. Here is link that explains how they use their resources: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/learn/church-donations-and-reserves?lang=eng

Spending church funds on NIL is definitely a completely different thing than any of these other examples you brought up.

[Holladay Ute]

I am actually not that familiar w/ what you’re referring to here. Are you saying that the church pays social media influencers to say good things about them?

I know the church spends money on it’s missionary effort (which is not new or, in my mind, controversial) and I know that social media is a newer tool they are using within their missionary effort (which is also not, in my mind, controversial). How that translates to paying athletes is not a logical connection to me. The church is 100% NOT funding the NIL for any of these athletes. The church obviously supports the university financially, but the athletic program is separate and funds itself. And the athletic program hasn’t been paying for the NIL of these athletes either. It’s been wealthy donors. That may change for all universities going forward though w/ the recent legislation.

[UtesRule]

Utah just needs to worry about what it can control, which is Utah’s NIL plan.

Winning is the best way to do this, both in Football and Basketball.

This is a big year for that.

[Utegator]

I agree and its unfortunate that Utah fell flat on its face the first 2 years of major NIL changes in college sports.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

Utahs success teamed with BYUs lack of national notoriety has been eating at their fans for many years. Getting in the Big12 put them back on equal footing with us. Suddenly $$ starts playing a major factor in team success. The theme has changed from “we won’t allow pay for play” to “we won’t be outbid”.

Suddenly getting non-LDS and top LDS recruits is a priority and crucial for their success. $$ can overcome some of the honor code and strange college atmosphere stigmas. Donors are stepping up to make it happen.

The more success they have the more money will flow. Now we are caught trying to keep up with the “Jones” or “Smiths” should I say. Our donors are more community minded and less athletics. Their donors are more about winning and the church notoriety from athletics. We can’t and won’t win a bidding war for players. Unless the rules change or the church authorities don’t like the direction of the churches flagship school I don’t think we can compete at a same $$$ level. Just my two cents.

[DataUte]

I think the revenue sharing and oversight of what we can call endorsement deals (Deloitte) will help bring some of this under a little better control. Collectives and just people giving cash to hand out will not be allowed the same it has in this wild west version of NIL. Direct pay for play will have to go back under the table.

[Utebeam]

I’m guessing there’s a big push to give NIL from alum, but it won’t be consistent. Mormons(I’m LDS) are cheap and won’t be willing to shell out cash for the long run. If ybu doesn’t have a good season this year I think money starts to dry up.

[Holladay Ute]

I said this in a different post somewhere else. None of us really know and so it’s all speculation based on available information. What we do know is that Utah retained most of it’s top players from last year (and not for a lack of interest from other teams). Fano and Lomu are both projected first-round draft picks. Snowden obviously had plenty of options. And there were rumors of Barton being wooed away as well. All of these players stayed. If we were living on a different planet versus BYU or others, then I think it is highly unlikely these players would still be Utes. Furthermore, don’t forget that we also bought a number of players in the portal that I’m sure other teams were also going after (like Dampier and Parker). I am not convinced that BYU’s football program has gobs more NIL than us. If they did, I think they would have done better in the transfer portal? Their basketball program clearly has a ton of NIL support right now (but we’ll see if that proves sustainable, as others have posited here).

[Jim Vanderhoof]

It comes down to who has the deeper pockets. Is Utahs pockets maxed out or are there certain donors you can go to for a big name player? BYU is highly motivated to surpass the Utes and gain national attention. Right now I’d say they have the deeper pockets.

We have no honor code and a normal college experience. Big advantage for non LDS players. Even some LDS athletes prefer a more diversified campus experience. $$$ can’t buy everything!!

[Chasqui]

Deep pockets do help but it needs to convert on the field. In no way am I a major donor but what I do give to the crimson club every year, I consider an investment. If Utah doesn’t perform well after one year it’s ok, but if it’s year after year then I start to question that investment especially as its cost goes up every single year. I think it will be the same for major donors. Right now you have donors giving millions but are they going to do that year after year if the payout is 9-3 seasons and an end of December bowl game? I think there will be donor fatigue.

[dut99002]

Spencer Checketts on Kall700 has Trevor Reilly on recently (you can stream their interview online). They talked about this exact question. Trevor was a GA with the Utes, was on CU’s coaching staff for a season under Deion Sanders and is close with Kalani and Jay Hill. In *his opinion* BYU has a very strong NIL program currently, stronger than the Utes.

I have no insider info myself, but looking at what they’ve pulled off in basketball via NIL reportedly, I think it reasonable to believe there’s some truth to it. Why wouldn’t they try and pay high amounts for football players too? I have lots of BYU alumni friends/contacts who are very well of financially. Guys who are executives of monetary funds, corporate executives, MDs, dentists, have very successful businesses, Harvard MBAs, entrepreneurs, etc. Many like BYU sports and travel to a few away games a year. Are they contributing to BYUs NIL pool? No idea. My point is though that BYU has lots of wealthy supporters who could conceivably be donating to NIL.

Personally, I don’t think the Utes have as wealthy of a base of alumni. I’d guess that Whittingham, Scalley, etc. are fully aware of the “new normal” in the NIL world and are actively trying to make things work.

[Holladay Ute]

https://247sports.com/college/byu/season/2025-football/transferportal/?institutionkey=24079

Does anybody look at that and feel afraid?

They lost some good players (like Marion, Taggart, and Wakley) and they gained some good players (like Tanuvasa, Gentry, and maybe Ryan). They also lost some of the recruiting prospects they were beating their chests about in recent years (like Aisea Moa and Jackson Bowers). All of this to say they arguably lost more than they gained.

We objectively did better in the transfer portal than them. How is that possible if they have gobs more NIL than us? Especially after last season when they went 11-2 and we went 5-7?!

I think one reason people might feel like this is b/c they stole Tanuvasa from us. Tanuvasa played in half our games last year. I don’t know if this is true but I’ve heard he was a bad locker room presence. And he wasn’t even the best player in his position group for us last year. Yes, it hurts to lose him and he is a good player. According to him, Utah offered higher NIL (though this doesn’t jive w/ Whittingham’s statement on the matter so he could be lying).

[Holladay Ute]

On a side note, I think this is what BYU lost after last year?

Starting QB
Starting WR2 (who was statistically almost their WR1)
Starting WR3 (who is the reason we lost to them last year)
Starting LT
Starting C
Entire starting D line
Starting ILB (who was one tackle away from being their leading tackler)
Starting CB1
Starting CB2
Starting SS

In other words, almost their entire defense (we can’t forget that their defense was super experienced last year). And their offensive production took a big hit too! That’s a lot of starting jobs up for grabs. With that being the case, why weren’t they able to bring in better transfers if they had so much money?!

Furthermore, if you look at WHERE their transfer portal losses have gone versus where our transfer portal losses have gone…it’s pretty clear that Utah still has a much more talented roster.

[Jim Vanderhoof]

It will be interesting how they do this year with a target on their backs. They have gotten all the publicity this off season. Big12 podcasters are making them out to be the new Big 12 darlings. We occupied that spot last year and were not the darlings but the c**ky hated pac 12 wannabes. Teams were highly motivated to beat us. We were despised and hated by all before we played 1 game. We had the target while nobody expected them to win more than 5 games. Fast forward to 25 and the shoe is on the other foot.

[Holladay Ute]

I don’t want to get ahead of my skis but I think it is more likely that Utah outperforms Vegas expectations (~7.5 wins?) and that BYU underperforms (~6.5 wins?). Although I think those are reasonable numbers Vegas has come up with.

Before Retzlaff, I was already feeling good about our odds down there (which is why I already got tickets to the game). After Retzlaff, I’m feeling that much better about it. A lot can change though. Injuries could plague us again. Our unproven offense might lay an egg. Our defense could take a step back after some key losses on the D line. We also have a harder schedule and BYU has an easier schedule. And we’re coming off a 5-7 season and they’re coming off an 11-2 season. All that said, I just have a feeling this will be a very fulfilling and rewarding year for us (particularly relative to them).

[Jim Vanderhoof]

I have the same feeling Holladay. I think last year left a sour taste in everyone’s mouth. The older leaders Barton Snowden Dumani Johnson on defense. An experienced offensive line can lead as a unit. Add lots of skilled athletes on offense. I have sensed a positive vibe going after spring ball. The team seems more together and highly motivated. Time will tell but if Dampier can move the offense we will be hard to beat. I definitely see this team having a better record than BYU with a harder schedule.

[UtahPilot47]

True but BYU has an incredibly easy schedule. They will have their chest-thumping moments this year.

[Chasqui]

Recruits are important but ultimately it’s a flawed system. Isaac Wilson was a high 4 star qb. Did he look like it last year? At the end of the day you could be a baller in high school but your competition is copper hills high school (no offense). Like sure there is talent, but is it going to translate? That’s why I love Utah’s philosophy. Get “their” guys and develop them. By the time they are juniors they will be studs.

The hard part will be convincing them to stay and keeping them when they ball out.

[Author]

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