Offense vs. Defense

[Titan]

I notice an interesting phenomenon, and it happens in more than just football. 

Picture with me, if you possibly can, a world in which the Utes have the #1 offense in the land, but our defense is somewhere between below-average and awful. 

What would our ranking be? What kind of excitement and hype level would we be experiencing?

David Locke talks about this a lot with the Jazz too. Why is it that in general, defense is valued so much less than offense? Is it strictly because good offense is more fun to watch than good defense? Or is there a general opinion that the best offense is more valuable than the best defense?

[Utah]

Defense wins games. 

Offense wins highlights. 

I’d rather win games. 

[UteThunder]

Good offense is more fun to watch and it is nearly impossible to win if you can’t score.

I love a good defense, but if I had to pick one over the other I would go for a prolific offense.

[Utah]

Interesting. What coach that has won a lot agrees with you? 

BYU in the 80’s? That’s about it. 

[UteThunder]

What a ridiculous argument. You know why there are very few? Because teams that win a lot almost always have BOTH.

What coach that has won a lot agrees with YOU? I’m sure there’s a laundry list of teams out there who have won a lot with a p**s poor offense and a great defense. Go ahead and list them.

[EagleMountainUte]

Chip Kelly systems I always felt like his prolific offense put a ton of pressure on the opposing offenses. So his defenses looked better than they may have actually been. But when you played disciplined on defense they were not as great defensively and wheels come off. 

That is just an example I can think of. During the 80s TDS played nobody and I really wonder how good Lavell actually is now.  He is the best this state has ever had but asterisks for me. 

[UteThunder]

Urban was, is, and always will be, better than Lavell. The only thing Lavell has going for him over Urban is longevity.

[EagleMountainUte]

See the asterisks for me on Urban is he won with McBride recruits. Again matter of opinion obviously Urban has proven as one of the best minds in football. Not so much in common sense decisions with you know criminal s**t. Funny how Lavell and him literally compromise societal values to win. 

I love 2004 Utah team but for me the best and most legitimately “best” Utah team was 2008. 

[UteThunder]

Urban has validated his success at Utah by winning at Bowling Green before he got here and winning big at Florida and OSU with his own players. Granted, UF & OSU basically get whoever they want regardless of coach. Then again, that 2008 team had a bunch of 2003 & 2004 recruits on the roster so maybe Urban can recruit no matter where he is coaching.

2004 will always be better in my mind because they didn’t have any close games. ’04 Utah would have won comfortably against those Michigan and Oregon State teams and there is no way they would have beaten a 4-8 New Mexico team by only 3 points.

[EagleMountainUte]

It is a good debate year end quality of opponents vs 2004. I feel like the competition was stiffer in 2008. Alabama will always be the absolute crowning jewel of accomplishment and that wasn’t even close. 

The black eye being that New Mexico almost loss on the road for 2008. Funny though it comes back to original debate which philosophy do you prefer offense or defense?  2008 defense was beastly one of my favorites and stacked with nfl talent. 

[UteThunder]

Agree about level of competition and Alabama, but there is one stat that I will never forget from that ’04 team.

Our average halftime score was *edit* 28-9. (I guess my memory isn’t as good as I thought.)

’04 Utah had both a great Offense and a great Defense. The defense’s final numbers weren’t as dominant because we played most of the second half of almost every game with our 2nd & 3rd string players.

[EagleMountainUte]

Hell yeah 2008 played all game no quit!! 😜 I blame Ludwig(Or Whitt) for the offensive performance. 

[EagleMountainUte]

I pick defense because they do “win championships”. The problem with Utah is they consistently have a GREAT defense with below average offense. You need to sustain drives and give your defense rest. As reps and time of possession rack up on defenses your depth and ability to win games wears down. 

Utah needs to sustain drives offensively somehow consistently. Whitt hasn’t really ever done this well unfortunately. Between third down efficiency, red zone scoring etc. It is an uphill battle. 

[BulgieUte]

It’s a good conversation starter but part of the discussion should be how one feeds the other. It seems like Whit’s philosophy is the offensive game plan should protect the defense and the defensive philosophy stands alone without regard to the offense.

[EagleMountainUte]

Painfully true. 

[ironman1315]

His defensive philosophy is to create TOs. As many TOs as possible because it helps the offense. I don’t think he truly believes the defense has no impact or “stands alone” from the offense.

[BulgieUte]

Of course he doesn’t believe the defense has no impact on the offense but that impact doesn’t change his defensive philosophy. Get stops, part of getting stops is turnovers. It has nothing to do with the offense strategically speaking but only benefits the offense as a by-product. Compare that with risk aversion on offense which hampers it in consideration of not putting the defense in bad positions. I’m not saying it’s a good or bad philosophy I’m just saying it’s obvious this is Utah’s M.O.

[Duhwayne]

Without defense, you can’t stop them from scoring points!

But without offense, you can’t score points!

Any questions?!