Receiver corp and coach Holliday


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      • #92400

        astUTE
        Ute Fan
        @astute

        I am no expert on this topic, but base my comments on what I see…

        I have several friends who praise coach Holliday for the progress he has made with the receiver corp.  In particular, they point to the increase in star ratings of the recruits since he has been at Utah.  They are right, however, my frustration is that his group, other than Covey, do not live up to those start ratings on the field.

        Serious questions for those of you out there that have more expertise in this area:  Is Holliday really doing the job, are we really getting better?  Is he recruiting well, but failing to develop players?

        And is there a reason that when Mendenhall left BYU, Holliday was the only member of his staff that wasn’t extended an offer at Virginia?

         

         

      • #92401

        gothamute
        Ute Fan
        @gothamute

        We poached him while Bronco was still TDS HC

      • #92405
        6

        chinngiskhaan
        Ute Fan
        @chinngiskhaan

        I guess I don’t understand the shade that is thrown on Holiday. Yes, The WR group is still a weakness, but they are clearly far and away better now than when ARod was the WR coach. We complain about drops now, but it used to be soooo much worse.

      • #92406
        5

        Charlie Foxtrot
        Ute Fan
        @charliefoxtrot

        I’m willing to bet that a good portion of the non-production from the receivers was due largely to scheme and play calling by Troy Taylor.  Add in a QB like Huntley who can be unpredictible when choosing to break out of the pocket and you probably have some additional production issues just due to it being a broken play (obviously some of these go in your favor).

        I would asusme with a more seasoned OC back at the helm along with a commitment to get better production out of the running game as well as the ability to better adjust to opposing defenses, the WR production will increase as well. I would say that from a sheer athletic talent perspective, our current receivers and tight ends are probably better top to bottom than the 2008 group. Put them in the right positions to be successful (with their skill sets) and the production will rise.

        • #92411

          EagleMountainUte
          Ute Fan
          @battlegroundute

          It has just been a problem for a long time. I was watching some film from Hans where it was Williams. He would make perfect timely throws off the hands and dropped. Not even mentioning the P12 and Bowl game. Everyone was saying Huntley doesn’t have touch. Shelley throws a nice ball at least to my eye. Off the hands pick six game over in the Championship game. That was only one of the many bad drops with well thrown balls. 

          • #92412

            UtahFanSir
            Ute Fan
            @utahfansir

            Yeah, it seems like the receivers all too frequently are allergic to prolate spheriod shaped leather.

            We see stats on completion rates for quarter backs. Are there also published reception rates for receivers? Are the non catches categorized into classes, like 1) clearly over thrown, 2) hit finger tips, 3) hit hands, 4) stripped?

            I would think that a WR coach as part of his job, breakdown is critical of every non-catch to identify aspects of form and technique that led to the non-catch. Then from that, figure out what changes are required to make a non-catch a successful reception.

            Clemson had a freshman WR who simply blew mind mind in the playoff games. Everything thrown his way he catch. Some of his catches defyied physics. It was as if his hands were leather magnets designed by the Almightly to receive prolate spheriods.

            • #92413

              chinngiskhaan
              Ute Fan
              @chinngiskhaan

              I remember several years ago when “droppy drez” was graduating I found a drop rate statistic, and he was the absolute worst of any eligible to be drafted.

              • #92414
                1

                UtahFanSir
                Ute Fan
                @utahfansir

                This issue has plagued Utah for years, many years. I was at the Vegas Bowl game when Utah played Boise State. Terrance Cain was the QB. He threw decent catchable passes. But the number of critical drops by Utah WRs in that game was shocking. Nobody wanted to catch the football.

                • #92417

                  EagleMountainUte
                  Ute Fan
                  @battlegroundute

                  When can Utah get a kid like Harry??? Throw it up he comes down with it. Carrington was that way I guess. I am hoping it returns to what Ludwig had. Seems like he could scheme well and had sure handed guys. 

                  • #92473

                    89ute
                    Ute Fan
                    @89ute

                    Same reason we did not get Ty Jones or Puka Nacua. Look at our last two, productive, go to WRs. Covey and Carrington. Chronically injured. Why? That’s how you shut down our offense. Take away the go to WR then stack the box. If I’m Chris Petersen I’m telling Puka – wanna go to Utah and be the best WR on the team, by a mile … and get the hell pounded out of you? Catch balls from at best a fair to middling QB? If you’re an elite receiver, you’re taking a very big risk coming to Utah.

                    Maybe we have turned the corner here. Assuming Rising lives up to his 4* ranking and doesn’t Tuttle out on us, Shelley proves he wasn’t a flash in the pan, Huntley makes it through a season, Dixon, Enis, Thompson and Vickers can keep Covey healthy, we might have a shot at a kid like Harry … or Puka or Ty Jones.

                    Ask yourself, if your kid was an elite receiver – not a DB, not a lineman, not an RB, but high end WR, are you all in for Utah? Imagine Covey and Harry on the field together. Imagine Covey and JuJu Smith on the field together. Now imagine Covey and Siaosi Mariner on the field toge…. wait, we’ve seen that.

                    Harsh post, but I think I’m right and nobody wants to see this change more than me.

                    • #92481

                      EagleMountainUte
                      Ute Fan
                      @battlegroundute

                      Nacua wanted to leave the state. As far as negative recruiting goes I don’t believe it goes on as much as you think with the winner. I think USC said those things and lost out on that kid. 

                      The more I am around young kids these days they are some of the dumbest kids I have ever seen.  But negative s**t doesn’t work on them. They like positive outlooks and rainbows. Just my opinion. Mom wanted Nacua to stay home he didn’t want that. Petersen closed the deal. 

                      • #92486

                        89ute
                        Ute Fan
                        @89ute

                        A Pac-12 championship would sure go a long way. Damn, coming up on our 9th year in the Pac. Feels like a crossroad. Do we fall back like every other south division champ or secure a spot among the top of the conference?

                        • #92487

                          EagleMountainUte
                          Ute Fan
                          @battlegroundute

                          I don’t know. Utah had their chances last season for sure. Health again the grind wore them down. I don’t think that NIU trip did us any good nor did the TDS game being last of the season. 

                          The schedule this year is very favorable. Ludwig has Moss and Huntley. Should be easy enough.  

          • #92422
            2

            Charlie Foxtrot
            Ute Fan
            @charliefoxtrot

            The drops are definitly a problem, but I still think scheme fits at least partly into that equation.  If you can create seams where the receivers have more space to operate it should make catches easier.  If you could give each receiver a small percentage of easier to catch balls, say 10% to 15% that may be all it takes to get some guys into rhythm so that they can make the harder/more contested catches.  If they don’t feel like they have to constantly press to make plays, they should be albe to relax and play looser.

            I watched about 30 min of 2018 Vanderbilt highlights (some games won, and some games lost) and even against some of the better SEC defensive teams on their schedule, I noticed that the receivers (including tight ends) had good seems and spacing to make catches.  Some times they were completely wide open without a defender within 10 yards.  It reminded me of the 2008 season (the seams/spacing) where our receivers had room to operate and catch the ball in stride.  The offensive scheme you run creates those opportunities, and it sure looked to me like the opportunities that the Vandy receivers had were a lot better than the ones ours had last year.  I think the change in scheme is going to make a difference with the existing receivers we currently have on the rossiter.

            • #92424
              1

              EagleMountainUte
              Ute Fan
              @battlegroundute

              https://youtu.be/oCkI-MTmVLs

               

              Watch that. It isn’t just scheme. Also that drop TD against Washington the first game. It shouldn’t have been dropped. I have seen them execute that perfectly before. Also they had a stretch where they caught mostly all of the balls thrown their way. 

              • #92432

                Charlie Foxtrot
                Ute Fan
                @charliefoxtrot

                I totally get what you are saying, and I agree with you and Hans.  There have been way too many WTF moments by the receivers over the past few years.  I am however hopeful that an adjustment in scheme by Ludwig, and (hopefully) a better red zone offense will help take some of the pressure off of the receivers and  help these guys get out of their bad headspace.

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