Recruiting…


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      • #90315
        8 16

        Pace Manyung
        Ute Fan
        @a2ute

        A lot of Eeyore’s on the board today coming to terms with Utah recruiting….or lack there of.

        As a non mormon Utah fan who has not lived in the state for over 30 years let me make this 100% clear.  “Culture” is 98% of the reason Utah struggles with non mormons…PERIOD.

        Living in the Midwest I’ve yet to hear anyone complain about Utah weather..NEVER.  Many have vacationed in Utah and think it’s some of the most beautiful states in the USA.  Would they ever consider living in Utah? Uhmmm NO, Denver would be a better “cultural” fit.

        The only way to improve recruiting is to change the “culture” at the top. 

        If this idea outrages you then let me ask you this, Utah current coach embodies the perculiar “culture” yet cannot seem to keep the top mormon talent instate…Utah is losing the battle on top mormons and non mormons alike.

        I’d give kwhitt a B- as a coach this year

        Coaching B+

        Recruiting C- or D+

          

         

         

         

         

      • #90317
        4 3

        Anfernee
        Ute Fan
        @anfernee

        You live in the flyover states. No wonder the bitterness. 

      • #90319
        7

        RiseasUtes
        Ute Fan
        @riseasutes

        I actually don’t disagree with a lot of that.  I think many also just have unrealistic expectations.  We have been P5 for 7 years now and are already outperforming/recruiting more than half of those teams.  I think it takes more time than some fans are willing to allow.  The last several recruiting classes have been very solid, add that with this year’s class and transfers and I feel we are still on an upward projection.  

        • #90322
          3 9

          Pace Manyung
          Ute Fan
          @a2ute

          The only way this current coaching regime is going to take the next step is to keep the local mormons in state.  Culturally it’s not structured to entice non mormons to sign with Utah.  And as I stated, kwhitt is failing at both local mormons and out of state heathens.

          kwhitt has built a solid program but it’s time to hand the keys off to a more dynamic  head coach/recruiter.  I’ve given up on kwhitt surrounding himself with coaches who could make a difference in recruiting…the change needs to start at the top.

      • #90321
        12

        Stone
        Ute Fan
        @stone

        Utah rarely recruits kids from the midwest, so not sure how the perceptions of Utah’s weather in the midwest matter (and it is no surprise they don’t complain about Utah weather… because Utah’s weather is typically better than in the midwest).

        Utah largely recruits kids from California, Texas, and Florida. Those are warm weather states. People in warm weather states DO complain about living in snow and cold weather. All other things being equal, if I have the option of living in Westwood or SLC, I am choosing Westwood almost everytime because it is amazing to go to the beach in December and January. Is that the only obstacle for Utah’s recruiting? No, but it is an obstacle for some.

        Then there is the metropolitan size. Some kids want to be in big cities, near media centers. Some do not. But for those that want to be on the biggest stages, they will prefer LA (and to a lesser extent Seattle and Bay Area). Some kids prefer the college town environment (ala Eugene, Tucson, Boulder, or Pullman). SLC is midsize – not a college town, and not major metro area. As a midsize city, it has its own appeal, but it is not for everyone.

        Some kids like the idea of playing close to home, but many do not want to attend the “local” school. They want to get away from home. That is an obstacle for many in-state recruits. As a high school kid, it is often far sexier to tell your friends that you are going to (name any big out of state school in the Pac 12) versus going to the same school where most of your classmates are headed. The grass is not always greener, but there is the perception that it is. 

        Does mormon “culture” pose an obstacle to some? Sure, but I think you are far far overstating. Why does Colorado not out-recruit Utah every year? Utah outrecruits at least 1/2 of the Pac 12. Is there a culture in those areas that keeps recruits away? You are so blinded by your disdain for mormons that you lose rationality. Most people in the west are not as scared of mormons as you and your echo chamber are (hence the reason SLC is one of the fastest growing metros in the country – those aren’t all mormons moving there).

        • #90354

          PlainsUte
          Ute Fan
          @plainsute

          Weather is better than in the midwest if you ignore the winter air pollution woes.

      • #90324
        8 1

        Stone
        Ute Fan
        @stone

        Also, a B- for Whit this year? Utah played one of the hardest schedules in the Pac 12, lost its starting running back, starting QB, and top receiver, yet won the South Division and was a close loss away from the Rose Bowl. How does that result in a B- coaching job?

        This is where your prejudices and bitterness really manifest themselves. And why your credibility suffers on this board. You are unable to see things objectively because you have some massive chip on your shoulder toward mormons (and by extension, Whitt). 

        • #90326
          5 3

          Pace Manyung
          Ute Fan
          @a2ute

          I gave him a B+ for coaching…that a solid non red goggled grade. Losing the last two games of the year dropped him out of the A range

          I gave him a C- for recruting… which is a also a non emotional assessment. Possibly ending up 11 or 12 in the PAC12

          Both MUST have equal value in determining the value of the coach. 

           

          • #90329
            2

            Stone
            Ute Fan
            @stone

            Alright, I guess we will see where recruiting rankings end up tomorrow. But even still, I would weight the actual on the field performance much more than a recruiting ranking. Recruiting is critical… but recruiting rankings are meaningless without on the field performance. Utah (and Whit) beat many teams this year that had higher recruiting rankings. I will take those wins over “recruiting championships” everytime. 

            • #90332
              3

              Pace Manyung
              Ute Fan
              @a2ute

              Yup, I guess we view things much differently.  I’m willing to risk good for the chance of being great….

              As well as kwhitt can coach’m up, he needs real talent (and a lot of it) to take the program to the next level.   Three years from now when Ute fans are grumbling why the team is no better than a 7-8 win team…you can look back at recruiting classes like this and ask what could have been.

               

              • #90344
                1

                Stone
                Ute Fan
                @stone

                So, to be clear, do you think actual performance in games is less important than recruiting rankings? 

                That is saying that the preseason rankings are more important than the end of season rankings. That speculation is more important than reality.

                It may be that Utah only wins 7-8 games three years from now. But I would wager that 3 years ago you were still playing the same broken record about how Utah will never win a division title with the recruits that were signed that year (in fact, you were also saying that at the beginning of this season and even during the season). But turns out, you were wrong. The actual results did not correspond to the recruiting rankings. 

                Look, I agree that Utah can improve its recruiting. I also think it is important to continue improving in that regard. But I absolutely care more about reality than predictions. I also believe that Utah’s program is on an upward trajectory. These things make me optimistic. Do I want a National Championship? Of course. But considering only a handful of teams have won a title in the modern playoff era, including schools with huge budget and recruiting advantages over Utah, I am realistic. Improvement is a “chipper,” we just need to keep chipping away it. There is no magical coach out there that is going to come to Utah and “quickly” win a NC.

                • #90374
                  1

                  Pace Manyung
                  Ute Fan
                  @a2ute

                  Look at  class recruiting rankings over a 5-10 year period.  It’s a general indicator to end of year rankings.

                  And before you go off on the USC or other anomalies I stress the word “general”.

                  Yes, Utah has slightly overachieved in relationship to it’s recruiting..but we’re talking about a spot or two.

                  You want a program that can consistently compete/win, average a top 20 recruiting class… not a big ask. 

                    

                  • #90379

                    Stone
                    Ute Fan
                    @stone

                    I agree there is correlation between recruiting rankings and rankings based on games, and it is a “general” indicator of game results. But at the end of the day, the game results are still more important. I think most would agree with that. Do you not? I ask because you still do not acknowledge this point. 

                    Do we want both high recruiting rankings and game result rankings? Of course! I don’t think anybody is arguing otherwise. Yes, we all want recruiting to improve. We also want game results to improve. But there should be more concern over (and weight given) to actual game results than recruiting rankings.  

          • #90335
            1

            Grayshirt
            Ute Fan
            @grayshirt

            So, you grade him a B+ for winning the south division (without taking into account the degree of difficulty of the journey such as the unfavorable schedule or injuries at key positions). Yet issue a C- / D+ for something that is 100% speculative.  MmmmK. Yeah… that makes sense. 

            • #90375
              1

              Pace Manyung
              Ute Fan
              @a2ute

              Look at class rankings over a 5-10 year span.  Not a lot a speculating.  Teams that consistently have classes in the top 20 end the year ranked in the top 20.

               

          • #90342
            3

            TheJuggernaut
            Ute Fan
            @thejuggernaut

            Come on, you’re smarter than that, “possibly ending up 11 or 12 in the PAC 12”? Yes, technically Utah is probably going to finish 12th in the PAC12 in recruiting, ONLY because Utah has a small class, and is only going to sign 12 or 13 commits. That’s why.
            Not that you care, because it doesn’t go along with your ‘Whit can’t recruit’ narrative, but if you look at average star rating per recruit Rivals currently shows Utah 5th in the PAC:
            2019 Avg Star Rating per Recruit:
            Oregon 3.6
            UW 3.52
            USC 3.3
            Stanford 3.24
            Utah 3.17
            ASU 3.05
            Cal 3
            UCLA 2.86
            Colorado 2.83
            UA 2.79
            Wazzou 2.75
            Oregon St 2.65

            If Utah had a full class with an average star rating of 3.17 that would be a top 25 class, but since Utah is only going to sign 12 or 13 players the rankings, which value quantity, are going to show Utah’s class somewhere in the 70s.
            These ratings also do not include 4* transfer Cameron Rising.

            • #90346
              2

              Stone
              Ute Fan
              @stone

              Clearly recruits are unwilling to move to LA or attend UCLA because of that “culture” thing. Midwesterners prefer the culture in Colorado…er, I guess, 2* recruits prefer the culture in Colorado.

              • #90347
                4

                TheJuggernaut
                Ute Fan
                @thejuggernaut

                Yeah hard to believe a bunch of silly Mormons are out-recruiting ASU, UCLA, Colorado, and Cal.

      • #90334
        3

        RiseasUtes
        Ute Fan
        @riseasutes

        We are rated #26 over the last 5 years in FBS.  Look at all the teams behind us, we’ve passed many of them over the last several years.  We are doing pretty well overall as a program, but there is some room to grow.

        https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2019/2/5/18211679/college-football-rankings-last-five-years-florida-state-pac-12

      • #90336
        1

        AgouraUte
        Ute Fan
        @agouraute

        How would you propose fixing the situation?

        • #90345
          3

          SteelUte
          Ute Fan
          @steelute

          Fire any “mormons” on the staff! Don’t recruit any “mormons”. Only recruit Rock stars! Win all the 5 star recruits. Stockpile elite 11 qbs, only recruit 6’8″ receivers that can run sub 4.20 40 yards. Its so easy guys! Whittingham has been the worst thing that has happened to Utah since Brigham Young founded it…..

           

          • #90365
            1

            EastCoastUte
            Ute Fan
            @eastcoastute

            don’t forget to recruit requirements for DL has to be 350 pounds minimum that are 6’8+ tall.

      • #90368
        2

        AgouraUte
        Ute Fan
        @agouraute

        Pace – when was the last time you were in the state of Utah?

      • #90385
        1

        Tony
        Admin/Founder
        @admin

        I disagree on your 98% number. While that is a factor, there are others. I think the climate, as in snow, is a large factor. That’s why they built the tunnel to the Huntsman from the basketball facility. 

        • #90394

          GameForAnyFuss
          Ute Fan
          @gameforanyfuss

          Nah. When’s the last time you heard a recruit turn down Ohio State because it snows there?

          Utah weather is downright balmy compared to the upper Midwest. Doesn’t seem to affect their recruiting.

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