The illegal shift that wasn't.

[EagleMountainUte]

This type of s**t officiating is costing P12 teams points and potentially the game.

[EagleMountainUte]

@proudute

[Ute_tastic]

Hans is incorrect about the rule. Fatheringham was set before the snap but Simpkins motion started before he was set. My understanding of the rule is that the shift needs to be completed and set before the motion starts. Or if more than one player is in a shift/motion then they all need to be set before the snap. This was all about the timing being a little off, Huntley needed to wait another second before signaling the motion.

[TheJuggernaut]

You can have more than one player in motion at the same time. You cannot have more than one player in motion at the snap. Fotheringham had set, Simpkins was in motion.

[salty-ute]

The rule is that the entire offense must be set for a full second before the motion. Because of the double motion, the offense was never fully set is the argument the officials are making. I think it’s a correctly called penalty. You can see that when Fatheringham is motioning, the rest of the offense isn’t settled in.

[EagleMountainUte]

Simpkins wasn’t lined up on the LOS either and motioned into the backfield.
I think what he is saying is Fotheringham wasn’t set before Huntley motioned for Simpkins to move. So the flag is still on Fotheringham because he was the first to move? I am reading the rule and I still don’t think it was illegal shift.

[McG]

It’s very obviously an illegal shift. When the play happened during the game I immediately saw it. Two players can be in motion at the same time but they both need to be set before the snap to be legal. They obviously were not. BTW, that penalty is on Simpkins, he needs to make sure Fotheringham is set before he motions. Huntley gave a foot stomp to signal for the motion but Simpkins had already started well before then.

[Ute_tastic]

Yes you can have more than one player moving in a shift, but all 11 must be set before the player in motions starts.
A shift is different than a motion. Shift is when one or more players move from one position to another. Any player can shift regardless of their position, even the center can shift as long as he is not holding the ball.
For a motion the player must be off the LOS and all 11 must be set before the snap.

Fatheringham was in a shift and Simpkins was in a motion they cannot be moving at the same time.

[EagleMountainUte]

@Ute_tastic that makes sense. The change in camera angle may be what is throwing me off and possibly Hans.

Huntley needed to wait one second longer to motion Simpkins basically is the correction?

[salty-ute]

Correct. Simpkins actually motioned before Huntley called for it, so it’s Simpkins’ error.

[EagleMountainUte]

14 points left on the field because of Simpkins. Damn.

[Stone]

I think Utah got a field goal on that possession (as opposed to the missed field goal on the first possession), so technically only 11 points left on the field, but unacceptable nonetheless.

It is crazy how much difference a minor thing can make in a game. Looking back to USC, I wonder how much the whole dynamic might have changed if Lloyd sacked Fink on that first TD pass. That TD gave the team a lot of confidence in the backup QB and gave the backup QB a lot of confidence. Had Utah stopped USC on that opening drive, who knows how that might have affected USC’s confidence (after having lost the previous week and then losing Slovis a few plays into the game). Of course, there are so many variables that one never knows, but very minor things can have an out-sized effect on football games. This is why coaches that are super detail-oriented are often the most successful. The little things make a big difference.

[EagleMountainUte]

Fink demonstrated that ability in the 2018 game. At that point the game was out of reach for USC of course. So for Fink to enter and make plays it wasn’t surprising for me. Honestly would have preferred Slovis the entire game. I think the scheme would have worked better. 

[Stone]

Yeah, the Slovis injury is one of those wildcards where you wonder “what if?” Generally, when the starting QB gets injured, it would be seen as an advantage to the other team. Not this time.

In this unique situation, the third string QB happened to be a high school all american–which is generally not the case at other schools. Also, the injured starter was a freshman that might be more likely to make freshman mistakes and be confused by coverages that were planned. And Utah had studied the starter’s tendencies all week and prepped specifically for him.

[ironman1315]

Or what would happen if Brumfield scored at the close of the first half. Football is a game of inches. Half a step is the difference between a TFL and a TD in some cases.

[utefansince79]

Indeed USC getting a TD instead of a sack was huge as was our poor offensive performance in the red zone that night.  But we did a good job moving on.

Once in the post game show they indicated that Utah didn’t let USC beat us twice whereas Wazzou let UCLA beat them twice which has some truth to it. Yes we played a great game but Wazzou didn’t play at their best being hungover from losing the 130 point game.

 

[Matthew Thomas Castleton]

Wazzu didn’t let UCLA beat them twice. It was simply the fact that Utah was the far superior team who played the much better game that got the Cougars beat. If Washington State was a better team, they wouldn’t have gotten beat by Utah that badly.

[UtMtBiker]

This is correct. If you have multiple in motion they all have to be set before another player motions and the ball is snapped.  You can’t have multiple in motion and all but one are set at the snap which was the case on this play. 

[pedro]

The best part of that video, the leadership of Huntley on display.  We haven’t had that in that position in a long time.

[TheJuggernaut]

Yeah he lit up DHC, with good reason.

[Great1Ute]

Actually, I think the refs got this one right.  It does not look like Fotheringham is set before Demari goes into motion.  I’m pretty sure that if you have more than one player shifting at the same time, all 11 players have to be set for one second before the ball is snapped.  In this case, Fotheringham and Demari are both moving at the same time and Demari continues in motion when the ball is snapped.  

[Utahute72]

Yea, live it looked to me like he was set, but on the replay it appears he wasn’t. And yes Hans was incorrect. You basically can’t have two people in motion unless BOTH are set before the snap. So if the receiver waits half a beat that is a legal play and it would have been a TD.