Thinking of Lauren McCluskey reminded me of this scenario.


Viewing 4 reply threads
  • utah football Next: Oregon State college football Sat 10/1 - NOON
      • #73932
        11

        UTE98
        Ute Fan
        @ute98

        I have three daughters and as such am more sensitive to situations like Lauren McCluskey’s.

        A few weeks ago I became aware of this scenario by Jackson Katz, The Macho Paradox: Why Some Men Hurt Women and How All Men Can Help –

        “I draw a line down the middle of a chalkboard, sketching a male symbol on one side and a female symbol on the other. Then I ask just the men: What steps do you guys take, on a daily basis, to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? At first there is a kind of awkward silence as the men try to figure out if they’ve been asked a trick question. The silence gives way to a smattering of nervous laughter. Occasionally, a young a guy will raise his hand and say, ‘I stay out of prison.’ This is typically followed by another moment of laughter, before someone finally raises his hand and soberly states, ‘Nothing. I don’t think about it.’ Then I ask women the same question. What steps do you take on a daily basis to prevent yourselves from being sexually assaulted? Women throughout the audience immediately start raising their hands. As the men sit in stunned silence, the women recount safety precautions they take as part of their daily routine. Here are some of their answers: Hold my keys as a potential weapon. Look in the back seat of the car before getting in. Carry a cell phone. Don’t go jogging at night. Lock all the windows when I sleep, even on hot summer nights. Be careful not to drink too much. Don’t put my drink down and come back to it; make sure I see it being poured. Own a big dog. Carry Mace or pepper spray. Have an unlisted phone number. Have a man’s voice on my answering machine. Park in well-lit areas. Don’t use parking garages. Don’t get on elevators with only one man, or with a group of men. Vary my route home from work. Watch what I wear. Don’t use highway rest areas. Use a home alarm system. Don’t wear headphones when jogging. Avoid forests or wooded areas, even in the daytime. Don’t take a first-floor apartment. Go out in groups. Own a firearm. Meet men on first dates in public places. Make sure to have a car or cab fare. Don’t make eye contact with men on the street. Make assertive eye contact with men on the street.”

        When I read that the first time is shook me. Food for thought for my fellow sports fans.

      • #73934

        chinngiskhaan
        Ute Fan
        @chinngiskhaan

        I work with sex offenders on a daily basis. I also happen to have two very young daughters. I am terrified of the things they will have to face as they grow up.

        • #73943
          7

          Utesbyfive
          Ute Fan
          @utesbyfive

          I don’t, nor have I ever, harmed women. I’m not going to play some hypothetical game where I’m going to take the blame for rapists and harmers of women simply because I share my sex with them. I share lots of immutable characteristics with lots of horrible people. I won’t take the blame for them, nor will I feel the guilt.

          I also have two daughters, and since I’m a realist, and know that there are bad people out there, I will teach them appropriately, but I’m not going to feel guilt over it, because I’m not one of the harmers.

          • #73951
            2 1

            chinngiskhaan
            Ute Fan
            @chinngiskhaan

            It’s not about feeling guilty. It’s about understanding what women have to go through.

            • #73954
              4 3

              EagleMountainUte
              Ute Fan
              @battlegroundute

              How does that help?  Shaming accomplishes even less. 

              • #73968
                1

                UtahFanSir
                Ute Fan
                @utahfansir

                Awareness. Your’s.

                • #73970
                  2 1

                  EagleMountainUte
                  Ute Fan
                  @battlegroundute

                  So I am unaware as well as an ignorant pig? Chivalry is truly dead. 

              • #74005

                chinngiskhaan
                Ute Fan
                @chinngiskhaan

                Wtf does any of this have to do with shaming?

                 

            • #74055

              Utesbyfive
              Ute Fan
              @utesbyfive

              You think I don’t? I HAVE DAUGHTERS

      • #73942
        3 4

        Utah
        Ute Fan
        @utah

        I think a big take home message from this is:

        TAKE VICTIMS SERIOUSLY. 

        When someone says they are scared, take them seriously. Don’t brush them off. Listen to them. Ask questions. Help them. 

        If the campus police had looked into it further, she’s probably still alive and he probably is too (although he’s probably back in prison).  

        • #73945
          3 4

          EagleMountainUte
          Ute Fan
          @battlegroundute

          Wow what evidence suggests that the campus police or anyone didn’t do their job? You really show your ignorance of the criminal justice system as well if you think prison or jail holds people like this.

          I always love the believe victim mentality but the same group of people believe in pardons and plea deals for these same criminals. 

          • #73956
            2 8

            Utah
            Ute Fan
            @utah

            God you are dumb. 

            The fact that she called the campus police to report a parolee violating his parole and they did nothing about it leading to her murder?

            Lets start there. 

            Jesus. You have no clue what you are taking about. 

            And what the hell are you saying with your last paragraph? You are all over the place. Are you drunk? 

            • #73959
              4 1

              EagleMountainUte
              Ute Fan
              @battlegroundute

              For once I would like society to blame the actual perpetrator of a crime is that easy enough for you to understand?  Or do you want to spout off about what you read in an article about this? 

              • #73960
                2 5

                Utah
                Ute Fan
                @utah

                Who the hell isnt blaming the man who murdered her? Has anyone said he’s innocent? He’s dead. It’s over for him. 

                Holy cow man. 

                A tradegy happened. It’s natural to look at it and see how we can do better as people to have it not happen again. 

                And one GLARING thing is where University Police had a chance to put him back in prison for violating his parole and they didn’t. Had they done their job, two people would most likely be alive. The victim and the offender. 

                And the offender WOULD BE IN PRISON taking ALL the BLAME. 

                • #73966
                  4 1

                  EagleMountainUte
                  Ute Fan
                  @battlegroundute

                  So far I see you operating under a ton of assumptions based on a Trib headline.  It has now been determined that the perpetrator was working security through a company as a bouncer. Possibly where he got the gun if you want to add that to a list of things gone wrong.  

                  As far as reporting to multiple departments it is very clouded. If you knew anything about local LEO along the Wasatch front it would shock you. Things are not reported across agencies with multiple police reports. If that is a failing again it is on the administrators and Law makers in the state for failing to protect victims. Reporting a violator who isn’t at his sex offender address in the first place is added to a list of hundred others for AP&P. 

                • #74040

                  UtMtBiker
                  Ute Fan
                  @utmtbiker

                  You’re just ignorant. How things work on Law and Order isn’t reality.  

        • #73946
          1 1

          ironman1315
          Ute Fan
          @ironman1315

          I love that you said take victims seriously because that is the way to handle these things. Take them seriously, listen to what they have to say, make sure their story is accurate, then act swiftly and surely.

          • #73957
            1 2

            Utah
            Ute Fan
            @utah

            Yes. That’s it. When she says she found out her former boyfriend is a convicted sex offender who has raped women before and he’s stalking her, call the parole agent to do a check on him. 

            Who knows what happens then. Maybe he gets scared and leaves her alone. Maybe they find he’s violated his parole and he’s in jail and she’s alive today. 

            Just listen and take her seriously. 

            • #73972
              3

              Central Coast Ute
              Ute Fan
              @flip2848

              He did violate his parole because he wasn’t at his half way house and yet he wasn’t magically teleported to jail. For that matter, a parolee can’t have a gun and he still didn’t get swept up by some imaginary force and get thrown in jail. You seriously need to get out of your head and think rationally. The only bad guy here is the bad guy. Not the police. They can’t know where he is at all times.

              • #74009
                1

                ironman1315
                Ute Fan
                @ironman1315

                But she reported him to the police. It’s an email. The police messed up.

        • #73948
          6

          UtemanUtefan
          Ute Fan
          @utemanutefan

          Please don’t blame this on the police. At least not without some evidence that there was some form of wrong-doing on their part. I’ve worked with Law Enforcement for over a decade and 99% of the force is good people who just want to help but are literally hamstrung by state laws and suspect rights.

           

          We’ve had cases where people are abused, stalked, stressed for years but no matter how many times we arrest them, prevent them, move the victim or have court process.. bad things still happen.

          • #73950
            2 2

            chinngiskhaan
            Ute Fan
            @chinngiskhaan

            was there not a report that said the campus police didn’t pass the report on to SLC law enforcement?

          • #73953
            3 3

            Utah
            Ute Fan
            @utah

            She contacted University Police and they did nothing (as far as we know). They didn’t report it to SLC police or his parole agent. If they would have done what they were supposed to do, and pass the info along, she’s might be alive today. 

            This isn’t some stalker. He was a sexual predator out on parole who could have easily been sent back to prison until 2020 (I believe) saving her life. 

            I get not wanting to prematurely blame cops, but they also need to take responsibility when they mess up as well. 

            And it appears they messed up here. 

            • #73974
              2

              Central Coast Ute
              Ute Fan
              @flip2848

              And FWIW he should not be out in society anyway. When a grown man forcibly rapes a minor child, we should away the key. I guarantee it’s not the police that let him out. Believe me, they would rather leave him locked up and not have to deal with him again. It’s the bleeding hearts that create laws to let sex offenders out. Not the police. Had he been locked up like he should have been after the first time, THEN this wouldn’t have happened. Blame the people that feel sorry for criminals and let them out if you’re not going to place blame where it truly belongs.

            • #74046

              UtMtBiker
              Ute Fan
              @utmtbiker

              Where are you getting this information that University Police are required to pass along every police report to SLC police?  What does that process look like?  Once its sent to SLC police then how does every officer become aware of every case reported by every other agency in the valley?  

              Passing every report of stalking and harassment along to other agencies would be a waste of time not to mention a logistical nightmare.  1 out of every thousand or more reports like this arent complete BS. What is your grand plan for identifying that one with the limited resources available?  

              • #74056
                1

                ladyinred
                Ute Fan
                @ladyinred

                I see it somewhere between the two stances presented here.

                I didn’t see from the SLtrib reporting that anyone was suggesting the University PD should have reported this to the SLC PD, or that there was any intentional wrongdoing on their part. But where the University PD seems to have been caught flat-footed is their statement that they had no address for this guy. Meanwhile the parole officer handling his case knew exactly the address, and said they had not heard of complaints filed to the University PD.
                I don’t know if he really would’ve been locked up again had parole officers been made aware, but it certainly is not a good look for the University PD.

          • #73981
            2

            RedRocks
            Ute Fan
            @hypodactylus

            Yeah, don’t blame the police; they are too busy giving out speeding tickets and getting cars towed to spend more time finding the real criminals. Blame the higher-ups and policy makers for making the police a revenue generating operation instead of a more focused crime fighting organization.

            • #74062

              RedRocks
              Ute Fan
              @hypodactylus

              Not sure why this is so down-vote worthy; maybe you didn’t read the whole post. You should almost never blame the individual worker group that does the work (in this case the police) when it is the policy set by those in power that often guides the behavior. In business and government, those who carry out the policy usually have little say in its creation. That, of course, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try.

              • #74072

                EagleMountainUte
                Ute Fan
                @battlegroundute

                Drive Utah’s roads. I wish more police gave out tickets for bad driving and towed more cars. It is ridiculous and they do not have time to enforce traffic laws at all. Most are on domestic violence reports or crashes proactive policing is going down the toilet in Utah and it sucks. 

      • #74003
        4

        UTE98
        Ute Fan
        @ute98

        I’m not placing blame, I think playing the blame game without all the facts, and nobody has ALL the facts, is a fruitless effort.

        My intent on putting the scenario up was to get people to think, not argue about who did what wrong. I’ve heard 1 out of every 3 women will be sexually assaulted in their lives. With three daughters that means probability is one will be, and that is unacceptable to me. I personally know of three women who were sexually assaulted, one was three years old, one as a teenager, and one by her husband when in her 30s. I’m sure I know many many many more but have not heard their stories. If it truly is 1 out of 3 we are failing as a society, we can blame everyone else, but really what I wish is we’d all look at ourselves in the mirror and think if we in any way could do better in the future to reduce the numbers in our own way.

         

        • #74006
          2

          chinngiskhaan
          Ute Fan
          @chinngiskhaan

          UTE98

          i thought your intent was pretty obvious. You didn’t accuse men of anything, and your quote didn’t either. It was a thought provoking post that was well thought out.

        • #74007

          EagleMountainUte
          Ute Fan
          @battlegroundute

          They say 1 in 6 with males but admittedly believe that figure should be higher. Males are even less likely to report a sexual assault. Most males are sexually assaulted at a very young age to.

          I believe as a society we have a skewed view of human sexuality. You can attribute it to many factors pornography is the near the top of the list IMO. This idea of monogamy is also pretty trashed on in all forms of media. 

      • #74011
        2

        Utahute72
        Ute Fan
        @utahute72

        One of the issues is the law. Police are bound by it, criminals are not. Stalking laws are weak, but the other side of the coin is there are some crazy people out there that will use any more stringent laws for other purposes. My son was married to a crazy woman who knew how to bend the law to her advantage, fortunately she also wasn’t very bright, so since my son documented her bahaivor when they got to court he was able to refute most of her BS.

        In this case they probably should have taked her complaints more seriously.

    Viewing 4 reply threads
    BACK TO TOP

    You must be logged in to reply to this topic.

    7 Years of UTE HUB! Forums Utah Utes Sports Other Ute Sports Thinking of Lauren McCluskey reminded me of this scenario.