Is There a Clear Separation between TW and KT?


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    • #173

      Anonymous

      One of the reasons I left utefans a couple of years back was the ever present posting by a certain very optimistic poster. I am sure most can figure out who it is. A couple of exiles had given him the name Effervescent, a comment on his over the top optimism.
      The current theme at Utefans is that Travis Wilson (TW) is a far better QB than Kendall Thompson (KT). Some have selectively used early season statistics and ratings to support that case. I’m not so sure that is an accurate read on the situation.
      First off, it needs to be pointed out that in the current Utah offense, regadless of who is playing QB, they will never look to the QB to win games mainly on his arm. They are looking to these QBs to be game managers and to open up the run game with their passing. They will never be gunslingers out there. Although TW appears to be the better QB to go long, I venture to say that his success rate on passes more than 25 yards is no better than 10%. So to say that TW is a better down field passer is misleading. Actually to say that TW is a better passer is misleading.
      TW’s current stats are as follows:

      Passing
      G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
      2 45 33 73.3 286 6.4 0 1 122.28 22.5 143.0

      KT’s current stats are as follows:
      Passing
      G Att Comp Pct. Yards Yards/Att TD Int Rating Att/G Yards/G
      2 35 27 77.1 215 6.1 1 1 132.46 17.5 107.5

      Lo and behold, KT has the better pass efficiency rating at 132.46 vs 122.28
      Now our Effervescent Utefans poster will tell you that Total QBR is a better overall measure of how well the QB is moving the sticks and leading the team, while gleefully pointing out that TW has the 8th best QBR rating in CFP at 86.6, while I can’t even find KT’s QBR.

      Here’s the problem with the QBR, with TW it gets distorted by his running TDs. Those come at the expense of Booker getting the TDs and with the incumbent risk of injury. Do we want our QB running and leaping for TDs, or do we want him to set up the offense for Booker to do that? Let’s be honest, virtually all of TW’s successful run plays were from his execution of the read option, noting the Defense had bitten off on Booker and keeping the ball for himself. That’s it and now he’s already injured himself. Meanwhile, KT has put up better passing stats and Booker has had demonstrably better run performances with KT at the helm.

      Last night against Fresno, Utah had its best 3rd down conversion ratio of the season. converting 13 of 19. That is 4 more 3rd down conversions than Utah had in its first two games combined. Now if the QBR measures how well the QB moves the sticks, then explain how KT’s QBR last night was just 59.7? Oh, we must have accomplish most of those on the run so it did not benefit the QB? Compare that to Fresnos Greenlee who had a QBR of 99.3, which was inflated by his 3 passing TDs in a loss. Great measuring stick that QBR is.

      So I am not so sure there’s a clear separation between TW and KT. I think TW’s apparent arm strength misleads the eye as to who’s more effective and we all know that beyond 10 yards, TW is a horribly inaccurate passer and that gets much worse when he’s flushed from the pocket and scrambling. I think the jury is still out on who is better and I’m just happy that we have two serviceable QBs because I think we’re going to need them.

    • #181

      Anonymous

      KT was playing against Fresno f**king State, not Michigan or even USU. Fresno State gave up 70 points in a single game this year. How many offensive touchdowns did we have last night? Two? KT is garbage as a passer. He has a terrible delay in his throwing motion, it’s like watching a child learn how to throw for the first time. Sorry, but you just don’t know what you’re talking about.

    • #182

      Crimson Clover
      Ute Fan
      @crimsonclover

      I was in the KT camp coming in to this year, but I think TW has looked better. I don’t know how the stats stack up, that’s just my “feel” of things. I get the sense TW is more comfortable this year, probably the result of being the OC’s first choice.

      Having said all that, I don’t think any of our QBs are going to look great. This will be a grind it out year like usual. I hope TW can stay healthy and find a rhythm.

    • #183

      89ute
      Ute Fan
      @89ute

      I think KT did okay. I wish he would not have “hucked” the ball into to endzone which resulted in a pick. Poor decision. On the bright side, he was throwing to K.Scott and I like K.Scott’s chances in that type of situation, but it was poorly thrown. It was a total “huck” and he should know better. That’s my only issue with KTs play last night. I’m okay with the bad exchange with the RB that resulted in a fumble. Kind of to be expected with his first start as long as we never see it again.

      I think our team can play well with either guy and I like that we have two good QBs.

    • #186

      Anonymous

      Moose, I did not come here to argue, but to make a point and support it with facts. Utah St just lost to UW. UW is not that great a team. Michigan has a good DeFense, but their offense is just a bit worse than ours.

      All your complaints on KT’s throwing motion are dwarfed by TW’s and then some. Fact is they had to pull back on TW’s leash because he was so inaccurate beyond 10 yards that the INTs were killing us. I just need to point you to the WASU and ASU games last year as examples of how innacurate of a passer TW can be. Against ASU he completed 47.4% of his passes for 165 yards, 0 INTs and 0 TDs. Average yards per catch was a pathetic 4.3 yards. Against ASU he completed 54.5% of his passes for 57 yards with 0 INT and I TD. His average yards per catch was 2.6 yards. Simply put, TW may have a stronger arm that KT, but due to his terrible accuracy, that arm is effectively worthless beyond 10 yards. My eyes tell me that and so do the stats. So who doesn’t know what they’re looking at? And try supporting your case with facts, not pure impression. Scoreboard don’t lie.

    • #187

      Anonymous

      Phillin, you fail to make any point whatsoever. You’ve picked Wilson’s worst games and used only them. Wilson has a better overall yards per attempt average. Teams don’t respect Thompson’s ability to throw, they think he’s a joke.

    • #195

      1Colonial
      Ute Fan
      @1colonial

      Maybe there was an argument last year but Travis appears to have calmed his game down this year. Small selection size to say that but I am going to go with that over that screen pass of Thompson against Utah State and the bomb to the endzone against Fresno that was a three flies up ball.

    • #196

      Anonymous

      Interesting. I asked whether there is a Clear Separation between TW and KT and supported that case with Stats. Not one of the responses are supported by Stats. They’re all based on observations and the feeling that it’s obvious. One response included a personal attack, again with no supporting facts. Another response says that TW has a better overall yards per attempt average yet failed to included those stats. I’ll help out, TW’s yards per attempt average is 6.4 and KT’s is 6.1. Once again, this stat supports my original point, is there clear separation? I don’t think there is.

      We’ll see as this season plays out. Already, my prediction that TW will not start every game has come to fruition and we haven’t even started Conference Play. If they throttle TW back further by asking him to be safer on his run plays, they take away his single biggest weapon.

      Again, try support your case with something besides feelings, opinions and personal attacks. Otherwise, this discussion takes on the form of Utefans and I’ll just leave.

    • #198

      GadValleyUte
      Ute Fan
      @maximumkungfu

      I was gonna write something much longer but the bottom line is: from what I have seen in the 3 games in 2015 TW is who I want under center. Stats over the past 3 years may tell any number of stories but those were 3 different OCs running 3 different programs. The real problem is that neither one seems like they can close the deal through the air in the redzone. Not sure if this is on the players or the coaches, but unless we can get the ball across the plane in the hands of someone not coming by out of the backfield we are gonna have to endure hours of frustrating, sphincter clenching football. But what else is new?

    • #204

      Anonymous

      KT can’t even complete a bubble screen pass. When he did try to drive it to the sideline it ended up at the players ankles. The ball lofts out to the sideline or it is behind the receiver. Those passes need to be quick because development of the blocking is key.
      KT also carries the ball poorly I hate it when he runs because he is going to get it poked away.
      Wilson can do pretty much the same thing as KT which is handoff to Booker. Yet the handoff exchange and turrible redzone interception would not have happened against Fresno if Wilson was starting that is my belief at least.

    • #205

      Anonymous

      KT has slightly worse stats playing against a far worse opponent. We would have lost the Michigan game without Wilson.

    • #209

      Anonymous

      Actually KT has better stats and I posted them here. Each basically had a half against Utah ST. TW had Michigan at home; KT had Fresno on the road. Let’s not forget the fact that TW has 3+ years of reps invested in him. Last I looked, TW was ranked 84th in Passing Efficiency in the FBS.

      Last night, in the 3rd or 4th quarter, KT made a beautiful screen or slant pass that was turned into a first down on 3rd and long. Several passes by KT to Kenneth Scott in the End Zone have been broken up by the defender who was called for PI. So he’s throwing it downfield and getting calls, not TDs.

      Again, support yourself with facts and stats, not beliefs and feelings. This is football, not dating.

      • #409

        Ute4life
        Ute Fan
        @ute4life

        Travis Wilson is currently 10th in the nation in Quarterback rating.

    • #219

      Anonymous

      I am trying to think of the moment last night but there was a time you could see Covey visibly p**sed off at what just happened on the field. Many of the passes that were made and completed would have been done with Wilson. I think someone said it already this offense is not built around the QB. A terrible exchange and that INT would not have happened with Wilson under center.

      For me, three games in the major negatives would be KT and the way the defense has covered the pass. Oline is still concerning but they were opening holes on Fresno st.

    • #221

      GadValleyUte
      Ute Fan
      @maximumkungfu

      The offense scored 24 points last night against a Fresno team that was clearly overmatched. 7 of those points were simply a by-product of Whitt punishing FSU for not rolling over in the final minutes so really the O scored 17 points which is pretty lack luster. Almost the entire offensive production came from the O-line finally opening up some space for Booker to run. KT is serviceable, and there might not be a clear statistical separation with both guys running the show for 6 quarters into this season but the coaching staff seems to have a clear #1 at this point and I agree.
      Also I think discounting TWs QBR because he can execute the read option and KT can’t undermines your argument. It is a staple of our offense. A lower QBR because KT can’t execute a staple of our offense is a problem and shouldn’t just be cast aside. If you dislike the read option because it exposes the QB that’s fine, but it’s the QB’s job to read and exercise the correct option. That’s QB play and should be respected. KT consistently made the wrong call last night. TW needs to realize we all know he’s tough and loves to play, but stepping out of bounds or sliding are preferable to nose ripping aerials and shoulder injuries during his senior season.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  GadValleyUte.
      • #1070

        Jeromy in SLC
        Ute Fan
        @jeromyinslc

        I don’t remember Covey, but I remember Saile F (I am NOT even going to try to spell his name) being visibly upset when he was wide open on third down and the ball was thrown four yards behind him.

        I have always been a Pro-Wilson. But even I can admit he has had some cringe-worthy moments over the years. The difference I see this year is that his decision making has appeared to take a step-function improvement from years past. That gives me hope.

        • #1073

          Tacoma Ute
          Ute Fan
          @tacomaute

          Travis looks miles ahead of last year as far as making reads and making decisions to me. If he keeps it up and gets and stays healthy it could be a special year.

    • #222

      89ute
      Ute Fan
      @89ute

      Phil, I agree with you, no clear separation statistically. I was not aware of that and appreciate the post. But here is a big one in my mind. Turnovers. The most meaningful stat next to W-L. Travis has 0, KT 2. That’s big.

      Whitt’s own words regarding Travis’ hail mary pick to end the half “we don’t count that”.

    • #224

      Anonymous

      Agreed Mkungfu that game should have been a blowout and Chase Hansen should have been in the fourth quarter. Booker should not be taking those snaps either risking injury. All of those snaps are wasted on KT when he doesn’t bring anything to the game.

    • #229

      javadave
      Ute Fan
      @javadave

      Travis just needs to learn how to slide and we’ll be okay.

    • #232

      UtahMan77
      Ute Fan
      @utahman77

      I don’t have stats but I think the team feels more comfortable with Wilson. I can think of one of the 3rd down passes to one of the TE’s, either Fakailoatonga (who the announcers loved saying last night) or Falemaka in the 1st half. It was 3rd down and KT threw the ball in front of him when he was wide open. If KT puts it on the mark he runs for awhile. Instead its out in front of him where he can’t get it, and comes back to the huddle yelling at KT. I don’t recall people yelling at TW like that.

      Just my $.02

      On another note I love the use of our tight ends in the offense.

    • #347

      Anonymous

      You can find all the stats you need at:

      http://www.cfbstats.com/

      ESPN’s stats included the QBR:

      http://espn.go.com/college-football/qbr

      I just posted the OP as food for thought. The season is young. We’ll know a lot more about Utah after the Oregon game.

      If Siale had not tripped on his own shadow last night, KT’s stats would be much higher.

      • #511

        Badbadute
        Ute Fan
        @badbadute

        Stats can be a good indicator of success sure, but they do not tell the whole story, TW has a better release on the ball, he is a more accurate passer **ie Kendall makes the receiver make circus catches** and the type of throws called for him have been higher % dump and screen passes. Pur 3rd down % jump is completely due to Fresno not being able to stop Booker.

        If you are a KT fan that’s great! He is an awesome young man, but I go with the coaches in the decision to go with TW, and from watching the games multiple times each TW has the “it” thing that KT does not right now.

        As for leaving Utefans because somebody was just to Damn positive for you…. Holy s**t man.

        • #513

          Anonymous

          This guy leaving UF.N because people were too positive on Wilson…that’s something else.

        • #1376

          Mr Chainsaw
          Ute Fan
          @mrchainsaw

          To add to that, against USU KT had a couple of throws to the sideline that were completely telegraphed and were not interceptions only because the USU defender couldn’t make the catch. Against a PAC12 team those would be picks, yet they don’t show up in the stats.

    • #360

      1Colonial
      Ute Fan
      @1colonial

      I remember a game where Travis went crazy on stats against Weber State and last year he was incredible against Fresno. Trust me against that defense last night, Travis would have lit it up just like he did last year. Ole Miss put 73 on those guys so when KT has good “stats” against fsu, take it with a grain of salt.

      KT struggled against OSU and UCLA last year and that windup is too methodical to work with time to gameplan.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  1Colonial.
    • #369

      LuckyNumber7
      Ute Fan
      @luckynumber7

      Put me in the Travis Wilson corner. Which is really different from my attitude the first 3 years. I wasn’t very high on Wilson, but watching last night’s game made me a full supporter of Wilson. Thompson is just too limited. If Travis can continue to hit receivers crossing the middle of the field without throwing it to the linebackers, then we are in for a good year. If he reverts back to not seeing the linebackers, then maybe Thompson is the better option. I just think that Wilson helps the team more by putting more pressure on the defense to cover the whole field.

    • #395

      rbmw263
      Ute Fan
      @rbmw263

      KT missed BADLY on some really routine throws last night. Throws that Travis rarely misses. If for nothing else but that reason, give me Travis. If neither are going to hit the big throws, might as well have the one who can hit a swing pass in stride and not make the guy do a 180, or hit the wide open TE on a 3 yard slant.

    • #400

      Tony
      Admin/Founder
      @admin

      After the first quarter in last year’s Oregon game was on the KT bandwagaon. Without any stats to back it up, I think TW is the better QB and KT should be put in a slot or somewhere else his raw talents can be utilized.

      For some time now our identity has been as a tough D, running team with QB’s who seem to be in there not to lose. I look forward to the day we can have a seriously aggressive passing game, like it seems EVERY other team in the Pac-12 has.

      • #485

        rbmw263
        Ute Fan
        @rbmw263

        It would be interesting to put Kendall in the slot and run some fly sweeps/bubble screens with a pass option.

    • #407

      UteStuckInSeattle
      Ute Fan
      @utestuckinseattle

      Wilson for me. He may not be a world-beater, but when he passes I don’t get a sick feeling in my gut like I do when Thompson lofts those ball in just asking for it to be intercepted.

      Wilson executes the Zone Read nearly perfectly, KT either hands off to Booker or takes a sack without much variation between those two outcomes.

      Thompson has great heart and athleticism and I think he could definitely be useful as a slot receiver or in some specialty packages, but Wilson is the clear #1.

    • #410

      UteStuckInSeattle
      Ute Fan
      @utestuckinseattle

      4 year starter vs. 2 year transfer.

      Unless another QB on the roster has CLEARLY shown they are the better option, you go with experience.

    • #430

      jrj84105
      Ute Fan
      @jrj84105

      Jesus Christ! Is the same poster who discounted all of TW’s stats against any team outside the PAC12 now using KT’s stats against 2015 Fresno as evidence of KT’superiority? Or is it KT’s mom?

      The difference between 2004’s crazy optimism and your disdain of TW, is that 2004 occasionally winds up being right.

    • #502

      DropOutUte
      Ute Fan
      @dropoutute

      I can’t tell you how many times I yelled at the TV during the Fresno game because KT couldn’t hit a wide open man or made his receivers do football gymnastics to catch the ball (see Bubba Poole’s one handed change direction catch for a critical 3rd down conversion) A couple receivers were down right mad that he couldn’t get them the ball when they were wide open.

      TW just seems so much more confident this year. He is making good decisions, changing plays, making good reads on the read option. I think he was really starting to get going when he went down. Will be interesting to see if he’s at 100% vs Oregon and how he does.

      • #504

        Anonymous

        When Fakailoatonga got snagged by the green monster it was more like he was surprised it was a well placed pass.

        • #507

          DropOutUte
          Ute Fan
          @dropoutute

          Haha, true. He was probably like “holy crap, he hit me in stride, that never happens” which caused him to lose focus and fall prey to the turf monster.

    • #798

      UtahUtesRock
      Ute Fan
      @utahutesrock

      TW isn’t the prom queen but he’s more versatile and a better game manager in my opinion.

    • #829

      Anonymous

      Neither TW, nor KT are good enough passers to base the game plan on them. Should be no surprise they’re just asking them to keep the D honest with their passing to open up the run game for Booker.

    • #541

      MTM
      Ute Fan
      @mtm

      On paper their stats suggest they are the same guy.

      I wonder how many times, when KT is going through his reads only to tuck it and run for 2 yards, would TW have fired a strike to an open receiver 15 yards downfield?

      In fairness, KT threw some good balls Saturday. Better than I saw him throw last year. But he still takes too long in his read progressions and the Defenses in the PAC will not afford him as much time as he’s had the past two weeks.

      I will never disparage any Ute player. I appreciate them all.

      I just feel like TW has progressed to where he doesn’t seem to make the mistakes KT does sometimes. The INT into the end zone Saturday. The pick 6 against Michigan last year. A total whiff to an open receiver 8 yards away.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  MTM.
    • #559

      Puget Ute
      Ute Fan
      @pugetute

      I honestly don’t know what to think of Kendal Thompson. I like him a lot but I would also like to see him get some reps as a Slot receiver, a la Braxton Miller. He is deadly in space and is a great athlete, but he has issues with making the reads at the mesh point and his throws aren’t timely. He needs to pull the trigger about one step before he ends up doing it. I hope the game slows down for him, because with our luck he will likely see more playing time this year.

    • #565

      Homer Crimson
      Ute Fan
      @homercrimson

      Is there a clear separation? Yes. The coaches and players know that TW is the best option. KT is going to be situational. I used to think these things were debatable, but it boils down to this: Whitt and the coaching staff’s football mastery>>>>>>>fanbase’s.

    • #573

      LA Ute
      Ute Fan
      @laute

      From what I have seen Travis is less inaccurate than Kendal. He also has been making better decisions than Kendal seemed to be making in the Fresno State game. To me those are the differences, and they are significant. I like our chances against Oregon much better with Travis than with Kendal.

      • #673

        jrj84105
        Ute Fan
        @jrj84105

        Less inaccurate is a fantastic way of phrasing it.

    • #574

      Anonymous

      I have not been on Utefans in years and I had my account deleted there, after racking up more than 8K Red Star, woohoo. I said one of the reasons for leaving was Mr. Effervescent. I detested his belittling and trashing of any QB other than his beloved Travis Wilson.

      I only posted the question asking whether there was clear separation. Not a single responder could support their case with stats, only subjective feelings. In the end, it’s the coach’s decision and I defer to them and watch.

      Finally, posters like Moose is another reason for leaving Utefans. I guess that this site lets anyone in the door.

      • #580

        Anonymous

        I am glad the coaching staff is not basing it off stats either. Clearly they feel(practices) that Wilson is the best QB on the roster.

      • #583

        MTM
        Ute Fan
        @mtm

        The problem with stats is that they don’t tell the whole story and they can be manipulated. Like ignoring the Adj QBR when it doesn’t support your position.

        So, to answer your question, statistically there is not clear separation. But by the eye test and intangibles a healthy Travis is clearly the better option right now.

        Edit-Not trying to be a smart ass but my point about stats-Most people think the Oregon game last year was KT’s coming out party. A glimpse of what the offense could look like with him as the starter. But statistically, TW was far superior in that game.

        • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  MTM.
      • #588

        Hockeybeard
        Ute Fan
        @hockeybeard

        Finally, posters like Moose is another reason for leaving Utefans. I guess that this site lets anyone in the door.

        Its day two – ease up. Trolls will be trolls will be trolls. Don’t feed them. Give the admin a chance to regulate – he’s active on the boards and taking new suggestions all the time and probably too busy to start wielding the Hammer of Ban so soon.

      • #640

        GadValleyUte
        Ute Fan
        @maximumkungfu

        So I had a few minutes to look at stats since that’s all you’re interested in
        Yards per play on offense TW 6.23 KT 5.27 – that doesn’t seem like much but in a series that 3 yards closer to a 3rd down conversion under TW that’s a big deal in terms of play calling, but of course the 3rd down conversion rate makes me question the validity of that argument.
        Really there are 3 statistics I think matter. Wins, points scored, and a corollary to that expected points added.
        So we have to take into account level of competition. Current Sagarin rankings of UM (36) and FSU (103) are pretty different so I think any tie is actually a clear win for TW.

        Wins. I think we give each 1.5 wins. I will say TWs solo win trumps KTs.
        Points scored. How many points have been scored with the QB taking the snap? In both cases the answer is 24. Both have had 4 touchdowns. Again 2 TDs against UM trumps 3 against FSU and Travis lead 2 long drives against USU to KTs one. Add that to the fact that 1 of Kt’s 4 Td drives was a garbage time score against a beaten team.

        Avg TD drive length slightly favors KT 81.5 vs TW 73.5

        If you broaden that to include drives that end in FGs then things even out
        KTs’s 2 FG drives were 60 and 20 yds – avg 40 with total scoring drive average
        71yds/scoring drive and 14.2/yds driven/point scored

        TW’s has had 2 missed FGs at the end of his drives, but neither was in the red zone, but his 1 drive that stalled in the red zone was 63 yards.
        74yds/scoring drive and 13.7 yards drive/point scored

        Again basically the same numbers but Travis did it against tougher competition

        Expected Points Added – Fancy WAR type stat ESPN runs
        TW 11.6, KT 3.6

        Like I said before the stats may be “objective” and no different but we’ve only got 90 minutes of play for each guy this year, and so they’re kinda suspect, but the fact they are the same against substantially different competition says something to me.

        • #1113

          Anonymous

          I tried to find and explanation for the “Expected Points Added”, but could not. Anyone?

    • #582

      DANgerous
      Ute Fan
      @dangerousute

      I’m not sure there is even a question based on the samples we have seen this year. It seems relatively obvious that TW improved during the off season. He is checking plays, looking to multiple options, and just seems more confident in the pocket. If he is healthy enough, there is a great deal of separation between the 2.

      I think last year with a smaller sample of KT’s play, the argument could be made that he was a better option. But it turns out the coaches knew what they were talking about and put in the QB who gives us the best chance to win.

      That said, I am a big fan of both, and I am fairly certain we will see both start multiple games this year as neither is likely to remain completely healthy all season.

      • #590

        Hockeybeard
        Ute Fan
        @hockeybeard

        Let’s not forget that last year the accusation was that Dave Christensen was not letting TW audible or change the play at the line – while he was giving KT free-reign in that regard. I’ve seen nothing in TW’s “improvement” that has changed my mind that DC was actively sabotaging Wilson’s role as starting QB.

    • #600

      Ute75
      Ute Fan
      @ute75

      I find it very interesting that the coaches are using Chase in the wildcat situation–rather than KT. What does that say about the relative strengths of the three QBs?

      KT is what he is. And that is very limited.

    • #601

      UteSteve
      Ute Fan
      @utesteve

      Wilson is the better quarterback IMO. Although his numbers may not be eye popping, he has been solid in the game and a half he played, against good defenses too. Thompson is an athlete, but I just don’t see the quickness in his decision making it takes to be a winning QB in the Pac12. He locks onto his receivers and takes a long time to get rid of the ball giving defenses way too much time to react – both areas where Travis has improved substantially this year.

      KT is a Ute so I will back him 100% if he’s playing, but with KT I think the Utes are a 6 win team at best. I think with Travis they have the potential for 9-10 wins and contending for the South.

    • #632

      ironman1315
      Ute Fan
      @ironman1315

      I feel that there is a clear separation between TW and KT. Wilson is much, much better. Fakailoatonga would have had a couple more grabs and we probably would have destroyed Fresno even worse than last year. Wilson makes much better decisions with the ball and he wouldn’t have fumbled the zone read hand off.

    • #642

      JDub1942
      Ute Fan
      @jdub1942

      Watching KT last night actually made me miss John Hays. If we play KT we want him to be a game manager, but the truth is he isnt even a good game manager.

    • #678

      jrj84105
      Ute Fan
      @jrj84105

      My take on Wilson is that he’s not a good enough playmaker to bail out receivers and OL when they make mistakes. However, if the O-line and receivers were doing their jobs, TW would largely complete his responsibilities, and we’d have a very functional offense.

      Thompson can be a playmaker and bail out an offense that is making mistakes, but unfortunately, the person he’s often bailing out is himself. If the rest of the offense were functioning well, KT would be the limiting factor in their success.

    • #980

      USS Utah
      Ute Fan
      @ussutah

      So the OP presented a lot of stats and then declared that the only acceptable response was more stats. Frankly, I’m not surprised at some of the responses generated by the OP.

      Rick Majarus used to say that stats are like Brazilian bikinis, they conceal as much as they reveal. One thing that stats conceal is the level of competition. Also, outcomes are not based solely on stats. Here is an example from history — a major air campaign during the Second World War:

      Force A started the campaign with 4,000 aircraft, of which 1,107 were single seat fighters and 307 were two seat, two engine fighters. This force started with 1,450 pilots for the 1,464 fighters.

      Over the course of the campaign, Force A lost about 1,600 aircraft, of which 762 were fighters, 2,500 aircrew killed and 967 captured.

      Force B claimed to destroy 2,698 Force A aircraft of all types.

      Force B started the campaign with 800 fighters and 1,000 pilots. 1000 pilots from allied nations augmented the Force B pilots. Production of replacement fighters would ramp up just prior to the campaign to 350 a month.

      Force B lost 1,087 fighters, along with 513 aircraft of other types. 900 fighter pilots were killed, missing or wounded — a 40 percent casualty rate.

      Force A claimed to destroy 3,198 Force B aircraft of all types.

      Based on the numbers, which force do you think won the battle?

      If you said Force B, you are correct.

      The campaign was the Battle of Britain, Force A was the Luftwaffe and Force B was the RAF.

      I will give KT credit for making some key throws on third down, but they were against lesser competition and for relatively short yardage. After a week of practice with starter’s reps, I expected to see the KT of the first drive against Oregon, but I didn’t. He appeared serviceable rather than dynamic. While TW is not going to set the world on fire, he does appear more dynamic this year than he did last year.

      • #1116

        Anonymous

        My post stated “not a clear separation”. I also stated that at least we have two serviceable QBs. Utah has invested a lot of reps in TW, so they are inclined to go with him.

        I’m seeing the stories about this Oklahoma QB Mayfield. The kid is a transfer from Texas Tech. He wasn’t even recruited by Oklahoma and simply showed up on campus. How could Utah miss out on that? SMH

    • #1045

      Hal Evans
      Ute Fan
      @dixieute

      Travis would be a better quarterback if they didn’t change OC’s every year and let him build confidence by leaving him at #1 and just quit playing a rotation game. KT is not the answer he isn’t even close to Wilson as a passer and Wilson is more effective running the ball. Problem is if either of them run the ball in the PAC-12 they will be an endangered species. The spread offense is death to either of these guys. Our continued propensity to run a conservative offense doesn’t serve either of them well

    • #1056

      Uterider
      Ute Fan
      @uterider

      Neither one can throw worth a damn but Wilson is a much better runner. In fact he’s an excellent runner. At six seven he is not quick to the hole, but after a couple strides he’s very fast. He can also run through a tackle.

      Thompson only pretends to go through his reads so he can justify taking off on a two yard scamper. He goes down at first contact. When he does throw, it’s either way too hard on short throws or at the receiever’s feet at the sideline. Look, the guy has been a college player for five years and never really been a starter.

    • #1058

      TorontoUte
      Ute Fan
      @torontoute

      Maybe it’s just me, but when TW is in the game, the game feels like it’s going better, even if it’s not. Whereas when KT is in the game, it feels like it’s all we can do to not lose imo

    • #1062

      mr_urson
      Ute Fan
      @mrurson

      this has been one of the better troll posts so far

    • #1076

      Jeromy in SLC
      Ute Fan
      @jeromyinslc

      I will add one more thing. Going back to the bowl game and what I saw the first two this year, Travis has vastly improved the mesh handoff on the option. He holds it long enough to get the linebackers flowing before he pulls and runs.

      Watching Kendell on Saturday, he gave the hand in the belly fake before taking off, often too early. I believe some of that is Wilson getting 1st team reps and getting a good rapport with Booker. But there was a night and day difference between TW and KT executing the read-option mesh.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  Jeromy in SLC. Reason: Typos because I hate my new Phone's autocorrect
    • #1217

      oc_ute
      Ute Fan
      @ocute

      i used to think KT was a better way to go. I like both he and TW. However, (stats aside) TW was in command the first two games. that’s something i hadn’t seen before. he seems more confident, self aware and defense aware. he actually stepped into some of his throws. he’s far from elite but i think he gives us the best chance for winning. KT seemed hesitant on decision making against fresno. yes, this is all based off of 3 games so far. for now, i’m in the travis camp. KT didn’t do anything IMO against fresno that closed the gap. in fact, IMO he distanced himself further from TW (in the wrong direction). So…. i’m a bandwagon TW guy for now. if the season ends up going south or we have some games where we’re either blowing the team out or getting blown out, i want to see CH get on the field to prep for next year. BTW, i have no idea why CM hasn’t transferred. He wasn’t very good in the preseason scrimmages.

      • #1229

        AltaUte
        Ute Fan
        @altaute

        Like most on here, I would prefer to have Travis playing. Kendal does a lot of good things, but he has absolutely no velocity on his passes. He should have had 2 more picks against Utah State that could have easily turned into touchdowns for them. I think he telegraphs his passes and along with a slow release and poor velocity will get picked off a lot in Pac12 play.

        Stats don’t tell the whole story, and to me Travis is the better QB.

    • #1232

      UteInsider
      Ute Fan
      @agutes

      Full disclosure: Mid way through last season, and all the way up to about a week or so before this season, I wanted KT to start.

      Before the season started, and through most of fall camp, there was little to no separation between the two. Travis was bad for the first couple weeks of camp, and was just as inaccurate, if not more, than KT was. Thompson was completing more passes and was in general just moving the offense better. Then something clicked with Travis. I have no idea what it was, but it happened. Then he came out and looked very impressive in his first 5 1/2 quarters of football. Regardless of what the stats show, Travis has a better command of the offense, and honestly looks like he’s playing with more confidence than KT, which is a far cry from last year.

      Long story short, yes there is a clear separation between TW and KT, and the Fresno State game cemented that. Not that KT was bad against Fresno, though it did look like it at times he really wasn’t, but I just think Travis has stepped up his game so much from last season. With a healthy Travis, I’m a lot more optimistic about beating Oregon than I am with KT.

      • #1242

        UteStuckInSeattle
        Ute Fan
        @utestuckinseattle

        The mental aspect of the game has such a huge impact, especially at the QB position.

        Travis seems to be the type that doesn’t get motivated if he feels like he has a short leash, as we saw last year with the QB carousel.

        I think this year when Wilson finally knew he was the clear #1 and he had an OC that put a little faith in him he started to play much better because he knew that he wouldn’t be yanked the second something went wrong.

        Add this to his experience gained over the last 3 seasons, the work he put in during the off-season, finally some offensive consistency, and Travis seems to be finally starting to reach some of his potential.

        Hopefully that trend will continue and hopefully he’ll stay healthy.

        • #1245

          FormerUteSax
          Ute Fan
          @formerutesax

          I think it was the haircut 😉

          • #1265

            UteStuckInSeattle
            Ute Fan
            @utestuckinseattle

            LOL. Like a reverse Samson!

            • #1269

              Hockeybeard
              Ute Fan
              @hockeybeard

              The extra weight of his flowing locks were just weighing down his head, making it look like he was depressed, which fed into the team not believing he thought he could do it, which spiraled out of control until it was just turrrrible.

              • #1362

                oc_ute
                Ute Fan
                @ocute

                without the hair, he wouldn’t have lost his nose at michigan. probably just his chin

    • #1369

      GadValleyUte
      Ute Fan
      @maximumkungfu

      In This image it appears the might be joined at the shoulder
      In this image it appears they might be joined at the shoulder

      But…

      As you can see here they are clearly separated
      as you can see here they are clearly separated.

      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  GadValleyUte.
      • This reply was modified 3 years, 12 months ago by  GadValleyUte.
    • #3459

      Anonymous

      I would like to express my amazement at how ridiculous this topic now appears, and request a carefully worded apology from westslopecutthroat.

      If there is still any debate, I would ask that you watch the Fresno game, and then watch the Oregon game. Thank you.

      • #3479

        Anonymous

        The game appears to have slowed down for Wilson. The change started in the Bowl Game against CSU. His greatest damage has been his run game and just in the last game, his passing. Against Oregon, he finally passed for his first TD of the season against the worst pass defense in the PAC 12. Hell even Booker threw a TD pass.

        Moose, I’d hate to be you. I started this post to prompt conversation on a newly created message board. You arrived and once again, have sh!t all over the place. Lick My Balls!

    • #3464

      Dhisatake
      Ute Fan
      @dhisatake

      I posted this on another site. It is isn’t just in qb stats. First it clear to the eye that Wilson is hitting people in stride. KT is missing throws… Throwing behind receivers etc. However if you look at run stats in the usu game Wilson blows KT out of the water. Well he’s stealing from booker right? Well actually booker was averaging about two yards per carry more with Wilson vs KT suggesting usu loaded the box because both KT and booker were going to run.

      It’s like a pitcher with a great fast ball. You still have to show the curve or people will catch up to your fastball. Wilson has a curve ball. KT does not

    • #3465

      Tony
      Admin/Founder
      @admin

      There are a few reasons why TW’s presence would mean more yards for Booker.

      1. He’s more of a threat throwing, making the D have to be more honest and play the run less.
      2. He’s more of a threat to run, causing the D to have to cover him or account for him.
      3. He’s making good reads in the option plays.
      4. He’s audibling to better play calls based on what the D is showing.

      Probably more…

      • #3469

        Anonymous

        The biggest difference I see between Wilson and Thompson are their releases. Although Wilson’s release is side armed and awkward, he gets it out quick. This is crucial for a QB in this conference. The TD pass to K. Scott would not be possible with Thompson’s slow release, it was a tight window which would have been closed by the time Thompson got the ball out.

        WestSlopeCutthroat really needs to come correct, he could not have been more wrong. My goodness, I’d be so embarrassed if I were him, sad.

    • #3475

      Dhisatake
      Ute Fan
      @dhisatake

      Wow.. I am agreeing with moose.. Weird.
      Absolutely correct though. Watch the pass timing wilson is dead on. Ball in the air at the right time. Kendal is about a half second late which is the difference between an easy eight yard gain and a tfl. Kendal got covey laid out a couple of times.

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    Utah Utes Message Board Forums Utah Utes Sports Football Is There a Clear Separation between TW and KT?

    This topic contains 77 replies, has 41 voices, and was last updated by  Anonymous 3 years, 11 months ago.