I am interested in my fellow Ute fans’ thoughts

[ProudUte]

Coronavirus is affecting everyone.  I understand that this is a major health crisis and I appreciate some of the actions taken to prevent spread:

– Stopping sporting events (I love sports, but I think this is the right thing to do.)

– Reducing international travel

– Stopping events like concerts with large crowds 

– Letting people work from home

However, this is also a horrible economic crisis and there are some things that have been done like closing all bars and restaurants in SL County that are making matters much worse.

I am retired and I have been hurt by the stock market, but I will survive this.  However, I have three children who have small businesses who are already taking a hit.  I feel bad for anyone working in the food and entertainment industry.  What will they do?  How will they pay their bills?  I have a son who is an executive for a company with over 100 restaurants.  They have thousands of employees who will be out of work and the company itself will be destroyed if this lasts too long.  They have leases to pay on all of their buildings.  If there is no income – they will go bankrupt.

I appreciate what our government (national and local) has done to help with the health crisis.  However, have they gone too far in some cases IMO.  If we lock everything down as SF has, will anyone have work?  I believe we need to be equally concerned about the economic crisis we face.  How do we maintain balance?

There are no right or wrong answers – just opinions.  I am interested in hearing yours.

 

[EagleMountainUte]

I believe it is an overreaction but if it saves lives and destroys others economically is that fair? Does fair really matter anymore?  We talk about fair and we want things to be egalitarian but life isn’t that way. This is yet another example of it. The decision has been made to sacrifice one thing to save lives. 

Maybe I am going too deep but I am philosophically looking at this. Our Government is making a decision to potentially to save lives. That is the logic I believe. The consequence is that you destroy lives in the process.  

[CincyUte]

Let me ask this: are we facing the same dilemma that arises in time of war–namely, sacrifice lives in order to preserve a way of life vs. retreat in the hopes of minimizing fatalities as much as possible?

[Stone]

I was thinking this same thing. In war times, our country has rallied around the concept of knowingly sacrificing some lives for the greater good. It is obviously a difficult decision to make in war and in peace (like now). At what point does the cost of destroying almost everyone’s way of life outweight the cost of *some* lives? 

I think the challenge here has been determining exactly how many lives are actually being saved by these actions. For example, if we just took reasonable precautions around old people and those with compromised immune systems, i.e., basically lived normal lives but careful around them, the harm to the larger society would be minimal, but how many more deaths would there be under that scenario versus deaths under a “shelter-in-place” order? We can only speculate at this point, but my guess would be the increase in deaths would not be substantially different.

The problem that I see is that a politician or health leader needs is somewhat required to advocate for the MOST protective measures because few will complain about an overreaction (“one death is too many”) but there is plenty of criticism that will occur if you under react (even if that is the most rational approach).

[PlainsUte]

Do you think the people of China and Italy didn’t try to be real careful around the elderly?  We can do better than that!

[Stone]

I am just saying that there are costs and health risks associated with every action – whether that be allowing the virus to spread unfettered, trying to find a middle ground, or going on full lock down. At some point, the costs of a lockdown will become greater than society can bear. I do not know when that is, but let’s say, hypothetically, that the lockdown continued for one year. There are massive costs, including health costs, that would be associated with doing so. People unable to work cannot afford medicine. People shut in homes go crazy and have mental breakdowns. People shut on homes commit suicide. I am not trying to be cruel, I think we need to do what we can, but at some point, life needs to go on, while taking all reasonable precautions.

[EagleMountainUte]

No I don’t think so. Based on what I am reading/hearing it isn’t as serious as the measures we are taking. I am mostly afraid of the consequences now vs the spread of the virus.
For instance we have now created a blood shortage for trauma patients. 2700 blood donation drives canceled and will only get worst as this continues.

[CincyUte]

I talked to someone today that referred to this as Y2K 2020.

[EagleMountainUte]

Small businesses are hurting most. They are talking now of giving 1000 bucks to every adult I guess? Seriously 1000 bucks?  Quite the golden parachute for the middle class of America. 

[Tony (admin)]

$1000? So we can all buy new iPhones now? Serioiusly.  That’s not much help unless the recipient is really strapped.  

[KiYi-Ute]

I mean, maybe this is admitting too much here. But as a younger person whose significant other is absolutely going to lose work at best and could possibly be furloughed (airline industry)that extra $2000 between the two of us would definitely help.

I’m lucky enough that I can work from home and my job is secure for now. My fiancé and I have an emergency fund saved up to weather stuff like this and we are budgeting aggressively, but without knowing how long this economic slowdown will last, a month or two of rent taken care of would be huge.

[Tony (admin)]

Right. If this thing lasts until July or August that $1000 is what, like $125/month?

[highlandute7]

Agree to this. And, why they say every American gets $1000 does this mean all the millionaires get this as well? Why do they need $1000? How is it determined who gets it when they are some they need much more and others that don’t need it at all?

[UteThunder]

It will be ‘MOST’ Americans, not all. There will be an income cutoff in order to receive the money. People who earn six figure salaries or higher aren’t going to be getting any money.

[EagleMountainUte]

Ironically it will cover most toilet paper stockpiling. Mitt Romney you genius. 

[BulgieUte]

When you say destroy lives you aren’t taling about ending those lives. They’ll have a chance to recover, the dead won’t.

 

[PlainsUte]

I think we have to consider some of the unusual aspects of this virus and the information we have to date.   The virus is contagious for several days by people infected who look well.   For a normal flu this period 1-2 days, for this virus the average is around 5-6 days and could be up to 14 days.  So people are walking around “appparently well” but potentially spreading the virus.   Any action taken must be done a week or more in advance of the anticipated benefit/need.  The lack of testing in this country means we’ve probably underestimating our current risk — that is things are already worse than it seems on the surface.

Where to draw the line … no easy answer.  I do think there are ways to dine-in safely, but I guess governments are not trusting restaurants and restaurant goers to follow strict sanitation and spacing rules.   There is the idea that carryout/delivery is safer.   True if one of your family members do the picking-up delivery, but it is also the possibility that one sick DoorDash/PostMates driver or one sick restaurant worker could infect an entire neighborhood.

The trend seems to be an increasing level of restriction.

As for what to do about businesses, there need to be rules for lease payment amnesty or stretching out past-due payments for landowners and banks.   I think banks, landowners, even the big REIT companies, will have to do that — its not in their best interest for their leasees to go BK.

[EagleMountainUte]

Of course Mitt the genius got that bill to pass and it is forcing employers to pay their employees 1000 bucks. Genius!

[User Suspended]

I have no idea what your age is but I’m guessing your over 65. Are you prepared to get sick and treated in a hospital parking lot where a doctor needs to make the decision to give you the respirator or someone in their 50’s – 

Your kids have a lifetime to bounce back – but you would probably need to take a bullet for the sake of the economy.