I need somewhere where I can post this, I can’t take the insanity anymore
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- This topic has 84 replies, 29 voices, and was last updated 5 months, 3 weeks ago by
Anonymous.
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AuthorPosts
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AlohaUte
ParticipantHas anyone who thinks Musk did a Nazi salute actually watched what he said or did or are you just reacting to the still picture?
Look, Musk irritates me and I was never-Trumper who decided to very apprehensively vote for him 2 days before the election and am still full of major skepticism. When the pictures and outrage around Musk came out I was aghast. But instead of responding with outrage, I went and watched the clip of what he did.
After watching it, the only conclusion I can come to is that those who are calling Musk a Nazi over it and calling it a Nazi salute haven’t actually watched the video or listened to what he was saying. He literally was filled with joy and expressing his love to the audience, grabs the area of his heart and rips out “the love” and throws it to the people. That’s it, that’s what he did. Did the action look similar to the Nazi salute, yep. But many other public officials including Kamala, Obama, and Hillary have done the same gesture in a single frame picture.
I swear I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. There’s a lot to criticize Trump and Musk about, a ton even, but this isn’t one of them. For the love of all that is holy please don’t react and get irrational and call people Nazi’s until you review the context of something for yourself and think through it.
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TortillaUte
ParticipantSince you ask I’ll give my opinion. Perception is reality. Whether he meant it as a Nazi salute or not the only thing that matters is what people believe. I watched the speech and when he did that I was like uh oh because of how aggressive it was. I personally don’t think he’s that way but when it comes to anything close to Nazism people should have awareness. He’s two moments that people could question. I would have a change of opinion if more occur. Looks like a duck walks like a duck must be a duck. I mean seriously how is someone better or worse because of skin color. It’s such an odd concept. Hopefully people like this are not Ute fans and wear blue. Go Utes!
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AlohaUte
ParticipantI disagree. I get what you are saying, but in this case it wasn’t walk like duck is a duck. That’s ridiculous. And perception is not reality. There is no “my” truth or relative reality.
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TortillaUte
ParticipantWhat I said was if he continues to have moments where he “accidentally” uses a Nazi symbol then at that point I would change my perception of him and he would be a duck. Read the whole comment not what you just want to read to start a fight. But I guess you’re allowed to perceive things as you want.
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RoboUte
ParticipantIf I blew both of my hands off I’d still be able to count the number of times I’ve accidentally nazi saluted on my fingers. Anyone here who has ever accidentally heiled Hitler while at a podium please reply to this comment and tell me about the experience, I’ve got to hear about that knee slapper.
Edit: wtf no replies? It’s weird that nobody has any stories about accidentally nazi saluting while public speaking. It’s just one of those things that happens, you know? You lose focus for only a moment and it’s like Oops! I’m heilin’ again! Just slips right out there!
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ORute
ParticipantI lol’d to this
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RoboUte
Participant>And perception is not reality. There is no “my” truth or relative reality.
“if all others accepted the lie which the Party imposed—if all records told the same tale—then the lie passed into history and became truth.”
I wish so badly that you were right.
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Central Coast Ute
ParticipantBecause people accept a lie does not mean it becomes truth. Truth is truth regardless of what people believe or what history books say. His point still stands.
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RoboUte
ParticipantIf you’re worshiping at the altar of reality then you should be outcome focused. If in reality something happened, but that information was lost, and instead something else was said to have occurred, then reality (or at least the behavior of the people in it) will proceed along as if the lie were true.
I wish his point were functionally valid because I wish the truth always won. But in the reality that we prize so greatly, it doesn’t, and never has. I can stomp my feet and fold my arms about it all I want or I can accept that truth that perception matters, unfortunately, often more than the truth. Yes, the truth is the truth, but that’s of little comfort when you have reality to worry about.
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Daedalus17
ParticipantAgree. It’s a habit. Again and again they find the bad in something innocent.
All these pessimistic people always seeing the boogie man in the shadows.
Its counter productive. People torn them off and ignore them.
I voted Democrat my entire life until this last election. First election in my life i didn’t pick a candidate. I can’t get behind either side.
We need to stop being chicken little constantly warning everyone that the sky is falling.
There are plenty of real problems with elon. But this is not one of them. He isn’t a Nazi. Claiming he is just makes me ignore everything the person crying wolf is saying.
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RoboUte
Participant“But many other public officials including Kamala, Obama, and Hillary have done the same gesture in a single frame picture.”
Good point, let’s not rely on a single frame then
The only thing missing is the flags. He either did it on purpose or as a joke, both are near equally pathetic. You have to take a step back at some point and ask yourself, “What am I defending, and why?” And not rhetorically, the answers to these questions are very important. It’s ok to have standards like: “We don’t want cabinet members doing nazi impressions at the president’s inauguration in front of 1 billion people. That would be bad”. Even though that’s a very high bar to set I think it’s more than fair, we expect a lot of these folks. For any that were hurt by musk’s actions, my heart goes out to you. Because that’s what this means now, apparently.
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Anonymous
ParticipantHere are several more side-by-side full-gesture comparisons:
Musk previous heart-to-audience gesture
Kamala’s gesture (a still shot of this has been used to equate to Musk’s gesture)
Musk re-tweeted an edited photo of Taylor Swift supposedly doing the same gesture
Musk is a juvenile edgelord and gets his jollies from trolling and provoking. He knew exactly what he was doing.
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
— Jean-Paul SartreDo I think Musk is an actual Nazi? Probably not. I don’t think he’s actually that ideologically serious. I think he’s primarily an ego- and megalo-maniacal opportunist who is pandering to and fueling that political/ideological demographic in order to destabilize and upend the forces that are obstructive to him obtaining power.
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RoboUte
ParticipantThe only logical conclusion here is that Hitler was saying he’s just bursting with love, right? I mean if you look at the still frames you can catch almost anyone ordering up concentration camps. SMH mainstream media turnin our frogs gay
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Anonymous
ParticipantSo much irony in the comments about gaslighting. Either the apologists aren’t paying attention to or are in denial about all his other behavior that this “gesture” should be considered in context of. He is actively promoting Germany’s far-right AfD party, supports ethno-nationalist and criminal Tommy Robinson, and he doesn’t think Nigel Farage is far-right enough to lead the UK’s Reform party for f**k’s sake. His tweeting is a cesspool of far-right propaganda. None of this is “media gaslighting”; it’s a consistent pattern of his own words/actions.
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RoboUte
Participant“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.”
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DeletedUser
ParticipantCope harder.
What are your thoughts on George Soros and klaus Schwab?
Soros admitted on 60 minutes to helping the nazis as a Jew. He is living in America and has influenced our politics. He’s near death, so his son is taking the reins. Fun fact, George Soros wife graduated from the U. Any criticism?
What about the child of a nazi, Schwab? His WEF policies trying to institute global communism, where you will own nothing and be happy. He brags about how they have infiltrated governments to force his bulls**t ideas. Any criticism? Or are you attacking an autistic person stimming? Party of love eh.
Maybe look in the mirror and ask yourself, during Covid, did I support anti-mask and vaccine individuals being sent to a camp to save others? Have their kids taken from them?
Sounds a little like history huh? Maybe the true nazi is staring back at you in the mirror.
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RoboUte
Participant>What are your thoughts on George Soros and klaus Schwab?
None at all, never even heard of the 2nd guy.
>Soros admitted on 60 minutes to helping the nazis as a Jew
I googled that and it seems everything with credibility disagrees, but if he’s a nazi or nazi apologist then I feel about him the way I feel about all the others. Lol. It’s really that simple. If this soros guy stands up at a podium and starts heiling Hitler it’s kind of a foregone conclusion that I’d think he was nazi, because there’s no other conclusion for anyone with more that two brain cells to rub together.
>George Soros wife graduated from the U. Any criticism?
Is it bad that she graduated from the U??? lol?
It’s funny that you thought you had something here. I just don’t like Nazis.
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DeletedUser
ParticipantDon’t hate yourself then, Nazi
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RoboUte
ParticipantYou tried tho
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Red Son
ParticipantMan, this has to be one of the dumbest posts on here including the original. What the f**k does George Soros having ties with Nazis have anything to do with Elon Musk 100% unquestionably making the Sieg Heil salute? If it makes you feel better, f**k Soros and his wife if they are Nazis. Your post is “what about this guy?” Blah blah blah. Shut the f**k up. Instead of coming up with any sort of argument against Musk’s deplorable actions (and there are none) you say George Soros? So, I can deduce from your lack of comment about Musk that you believed he was actually doing the Seig Heil. Go f**k yourself and your selfish ass.
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Andrew
Participantooof…… This guy watches way too much Fox News and OAN. I love a good George Soros/global elite/adrenochrome/Hollywood pedo conspiracy as much as the next guy, but let’s look at how corporate interest is actively influencing politics… on both sides. Don’t need to go searching for a needle in a haystack with that one. News media whether it be the right or left is just stirring the pot to keep democrats mad at republicans and vise versa. Trump doesn’t care about the interests of the average American and neither does the establishment left. Wealth inequality will continue to grow under Trump. Our politicians should be public servants who are isolated from corruption. Until we get rid of lobbying and enact stricter term limits nothing substantial will change.
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Virginia Ute
ParticipantSpot on. He knew what he was doing.
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Virginia Ute
ParticipantSpot on. He knew what he was doing.
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Anonymous
ParticipantHere are a number of side-by-side full-gesture comparisons:
Musk previously doing heart-to-audience gesture:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/1i7kkc0/unless_he_was_having_a_heart_attack_i_think_one/Compared to actual sieg heil:
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/1i6ql2m/elon_musk_compared_to_neonazi_group_blood_tribe/
https://www.reddit.com/r/gifs/comments/1i6par1/elon_musk_vs_hitler_nazi_salute/Kamala’s gesture (still photo from this has been used to equate to Musk’s gesture):
https://www.reddit.com/r/JoeRogan/comments/1i72ih8/in_response_to_all_of_the_still_pictures/Musk re-tweeted an edited photo of Taylor Swift supposedly doing the same gesture as Musk:
https://www.reddit.com/r/popculturechat/comments/1i7jwln/elon_musk_retweets_two_edited_images_of_taylor/
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DeletedUser
ParticipantLosers grasping at straws trying to make sense of their humiliating defeat, just like a zoob.
None of you actually believe your “mah nazi” hyperbole. It’s sad to see so many brainwashed by media.
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SkinyUte
Participant“brainwashed by media”
You do know we can read the exact words that Elon posts from his personal account on the platform that he owns, right? There’s no media filter involved in that exercise whatsoever.
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RiseasUtes
ParticipantNo, “losers” use personal attacks and refuse to listen to anything or anyone that disagrees with them or that has a different opinion than them. They intimidate or attack because they don’t really know what they are arguing, but they “know” the other side is wrong.
It’s ok to have a difference of opinion on a subject. What’s not ok, is attacking those people just because they don’t agree with you.
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The Miami Ute
ParticipantI’m a huge history buff so I’m quite familiar with this, but I wonder how many people on this website knew about it.
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Central Coast Ute
ParticipantI did not know about the Bellamy salute. Thank you for educating me.
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The Miami Ute
ParticipantGiven the 20th Century’s history, it’s shocking to a lot of Americans that, before WWII, this is how people would pledge allegiance.
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RoboUte
ParticipantMusk was simply recalling his younger days in American grade school, of course.
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The Miami Ute
ParticipantActually he was channeling Julius Caesar saluting his troops just before the invasion of Gaul.
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RoboUte
ParticipantNo doubt. I’ll never forget the day myself
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UteBacker
ModeratorDefinition of gaslighting: a manipulation tactic that involves making someone question their reality. It’s a form of emotional abuse that can be used in intimate relationships and politics.
Some news sources have mastered this technique.
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AlohaUte
ParticipantAnd Reddit
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Tony (admin)
KeymasterRichest man in the world. Built Paypal. Built video games. Builds electric cars, rockets, tunnels, robots, and is researching how to implement literal bionic and robotic parts connected to a human brain so people without limbs can have limbs. Built a submarine to try and rescue those people in that cave…. This dude is a closet Nazi, just waiting for the “right time” to come out of the closet. Uh, yeah. Meanwhile around the globe people are chanting death to Israel and so forth… but they’re not Nazi’s. Makes sense.
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TortillaUte
ParticipantThey’ve been defined as other terms like terrorists. But they are all equally as bad. Anyone with hate towards or a desire to cause harm to someone because they are different need…. Whataboutism will also bring down humanity.
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AlohaUte
ParticipantWho does Musk have hate towards?
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TortillaUte
ParticipantMy comment had nothing to do with Musk. So???? Just like 1984 has nothing to do with the Sugar Bowl, Fiesta Bowl or PAC championships. Your interpretation of what I think of him at this time is a bit off. The best part is I’m commenting from my Starlink service.
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RoboUte
ParticipantI don’t think he was talking about musk but you should read his twitter more if that’s a genuine question
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TortillaUte
ParticipantI’ll give Musk the benefit of the doubt at the moment because. Nothing I believe in is ever concrete because I keep an open mind. My biggest concern with him and the President or our previous administration is what they say and how they say it. Sometimes things are concrete with followers and they can’t read between the lines. They are the ones I fear. Those that don’t fully understand the rhetoric and act on it. If bad things happen because of what is said or the actions of leaders then I will blame them. Firing up the uneducated to do your dirty work would not be acceptable.
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PhillyUte
ParticipantThe fact that you think him being the richest man in the world makes him somehow above criticism is hilarious. Remember when he called one of the British divers a “pedo guy.” Elon is nothing more than corporate filth that has infected our government.
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DanielLaRussoUte
ParticipantI also like that someone who “builds” cars and rockets (which he absolutely does not do) can’t have secret Nazi links. Everyone please take time to look up the history of your favorite German car manufacturers as well as Operation Paperclip.
Now that said, Elon’s probably not a Nazi. But he’s certainly on the authoritarian scale…which I assume most CEOs are.
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Anonymous
ParticipantYou don’t need to go to German car manufacturers, Henry Ford was an outspoken anti-Semite who was honored by the Nazis.
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The Miami Ute
ParticipantTo be honest though, Ford’s attitudes towards Jews were pretty mainstream in the USA at the time. That’s one of the reasons why Jews couldn’t hold many professions (one of the reasons why Jews were so prominent in show business since it was open to them) and were denied admission to universities, private clubs, etc…suffice it to say that if Henry Ford were alive today, he probably would be as “woke” as any CEO of any major company today.
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Anonymous
ParticipantYes, very different times and cultural norms. I was simply pointing out there were US links to Nazis in direct response to the previous comment about car manufacturers. I’m not suggesting Ford’s beliefs/actions then should be judged as if he were someone doing the same today.
And just in regards to Tony’s original comment of this thread, I think it’s fallacious logic to imply that being highly successful in business is somehow indicative of whether or not a person might have racist beliefs; there is simply no logical correlation/causation between those two things.
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The Miami Ute
ParticipantWell, you most certainly can have racist beliefs and be highly successful in business provided you don’t act on those beliefs. So, in essence, you’d have to be a “crypto-racist.” I am sure that there are people in society who have racist beliefs but don’t act on them because the penalties are so severe. Same with a guy like Musk. Seems to me that Musk’s main goal, like most high-powered industrialists or executives, is to make as much money as possible. That’s kind of hard to do if you’re focused on the race of your prospective clientele.
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Anonymous
ParticipantWell racism exists on a spectrum and there are varying degrees to how racist a person is and how they express it. At the most extreme is when racism is like a deep religion and you get Nazi-level ethno-nationalism and genocide. Somewhere lower down on the scale, I think it’s possible to have some fairly strong racist beliefs but also be transactional. That is, you are willing to do business with those you have racist beliefs about if it ultimately benefits you, and you might also engage in some subversive/covert racist practices. I believe Trump fits this profile.
As for Musk, as I have said in other comments here, I don’t have a certain belief about whether or not he is actually a deep racist, but I do believe that currently he is intentionally pandering to demographics and dog-whistling sentiments that are at the very least racism-friendly (I’m being very generous here). My belief is that he is using this angle as a method for sewing societal/cultural chaos to destabilize and upend the traditional democratic institutions and systems that inhibit his and his fellow tech billionaires’ ability to do what they want unimpeded. Will his approach work out for him money/power wise in the long run? We’ll see, but it seems to be working for him right now…and to the detriment of democracy, imo.
Anyway, I really need to stop on this topic here now, lol.
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Rick
ParticipantA closet Nazi that wears the “bring them home” pin supporting Israeli hostages from October 7th and has given millions to Israel to help them post October 7th. This thread is an absolute joke. It reminds me of the many mindless far left posts that made UteFans into an online cesspool of liberal group think.
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UteThunder
ParticipantIf people would actually look into the stories the media tells about Trump and his allies, they would realize just how much the media lies to us.
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UteBacker
ModeratorMore and more people are figuring this out, Thunder.
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AlohaUte
ParticipantHence why he won reelection
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TortillaUte
ParticipantAnyone that uses media for their information can be manipulated from the right and left. It’s their job to promote their agenda and they twist what people say. There is no truth coming from any media because it’s not their job. To know who and what people are just listen to their words, how they say it and watch their actions. That will tell you what someone is really trying to do.
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AlohaUte
ParticipantI find Ground.news and Semafor to be refreshingly balanced. Check them out.
Also the most balanced and fair voice in political media I’ve found to be Michael Smerconish. He’s got a great radio show that sits on Sirius XM and maybe elsewhere.
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Ute-yankee
ParticipantGuys, I didn’t think when I joined Utehub that it would be a bastion of free though, insightful dialog and nuanced political opinion. I love this forum. Thanks for building it, Tony.
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TortillaUte
ParticipantWe all bleed red and that’s what’s important. Go Utes!!
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RoboUte
ParticipantIt’s pretty good until someone brings up mormonism. Which probably shouldn’t be discussed on the board much
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SkinyUte
ParticipantWell, all the literal Nazis thought he did a Nazi salute, so…
Dude was raised in apartheid, and watching his constant “help, help…white people are being oppressed” posts on his own platform over the years certainly makes one wonder if he still has some sympathies there.
Do I think he’s a full blown white supremecist? I don’t know, but it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if he was. Ultimately, I think Elon only cares about getting attention and getting even richer. He’s succeeding wildly in both areas (since he just purchased the US government), so mission accomplished I suppose.
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Central Coast Ute
ParticipantI don’t know. Someone who’s only worried about making more money wouldn’t be over paying for twitter and going against the woke narrative. He lost a ton of money on the whole deal and continues to do so as left leaning companies won’t advertise on X. If he wanted more money, he would have kept with Silicon Valley.
When Biden was president, he held a forum for all electric car manufacturers, but guess who was not invited? That’s right, Elon Musk. If his sole purpose was to infiltrate the government why would he gamble on Trump winning a second time after losing? It seems like a bad bet for someone hell bent on money and power. Why not just toe the party line that’s in office and for whom you’ve been a part of most of your life anyway? That would have been quickest and surest way to influence government.
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SkinyUte
ParticipantAnything he may have lost on Twitter is pennies compared to what he now stands to make from the government. Which is why he did what he did, imo.
If DOGE goes as I expect, any government function that might be able to turn a profit will be farmed out to him and his corporate friends to do exactly that. He can simply pick and choose what pieces he wants to remove from anyone he doesn’t like and hand to those he does. He’s not elected and has zero accountability, so who’s gonna stop him? Any function that doesn’t potentially profit and just provides a service to citizens will simply be removed. If you happened to need those services as a citizen (however inefficient they may have been)? Sucks for you. Now pay up for them at whatever price Elon and his friends decide or you’re out of luck.
Elon’s goal is to extract every penny of wealth imaginable and transfer it upwards. Sure, there will be a select few who benefit from that, but I expect that we will see the income equality gap continue to widen exponentially. The billionaires will become trillionaires while everyone else picks at the crumbs they deign to leave. Where that ultimately leads us remains to be seen.
I do find it fully how everyone so staunchly opposed to anything the government does are perfectly fine bending right over for the billionaire class. Elon is everything the right claims George Soros to be, amplified by 1,000.
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Central Coast Ute
ParticipantDo you think Elon Musk is psychic? When he bought Twitter, it did not seem like Trump was going to win a second term. And no one knew that Musk was going to be a part of it anyway. Musk has always made a ton of money from the federal government. Back when he was democrat, they loved him and threw money at him. Seriously, he makes electric cars for crying out loud. Not exactly a conservative selling point.
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SkinyUte
ParticipantOne of the primary reasons Musk bought Twitter is exactly so he could turn it into the white supremacist garbage heap it has now become. It was a strategic bet for him to get exactly where he is right now. He can’t be President so he’s doing the next best thing, which is strongly influencing where federal money will be spent (hint: it will go to his companies). And if his bet didn’t work out and Trump lost? Meh. He still had, what, 350 Billion dollars to fall back on?
As far as the “Democrats used to love him”, that was looooooong before anyone knew what he was. Heck, I even considered buying a Tesla at one point in the early going. Now, I will steadfastly refuse to do anything that even might put a nickel in that fascist’s pocket.
Also, it’s pretty hard to take anyone seriously who references the “Twitter files” with a straight face.
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Anonymous
ParticipantElon Musk admits he only bought Twitter because he thought he’d be forced to.
He made a flippant offer that he wanted to back out of, but ended up trapping himself in a legal bind that he realized he would lose. He then decided to turn Twitter into a propaganda platform for his political agenda.
When Biden was president, he held a forum for all electric car manufacturers, but guess who was not invited? That’s right, Elon Musk. If his sole purpose was to infiltrate the government why would he gamble on Trump winning a second time after losing?
Contradictory sentences. If Biden snubbed him, how was he going to be influential in Biden’s government?
Musk leveraged massive subsidies under Democrats to develop his businesses. Now that those businesses are mature, he’s moving on to deregulation – a Republican position. He reached a ceiling with how much Democratic policy could benefit him, so being the opportunist that he is, he has shifted to leveraging right-wing economic ideology. He would never be able to achieve in a Democrat government the level of direct influence in shaping policy like he now has under the no-guardrails Trump government. He wants to be an uninhibited oligarch, plain and simple.
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Central Coast Ute
ParticipantIt’s not contradictory. Before Musk bought Twitter, released the Twitter files, and didn’t ban you for saying boys are not girls, the democrats loved him. In fact, up until around 2020 he was a democrat, just like a lot of people.
The electric vehicle summit at the White House was never for “union” employers. It was never advertised as such and was not even called that. It was a direct snub to Musk. Maybe he snubbed him for not joining the UAW because they pay a ton of money to democrat politicians, but please don’t be so naive to think that’s why he wasn’t invited.
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Anonymous
ParticipantIf Biden was willing to snub Musk, isn’t that an indicator that Musk’s ability to be influential under Biden was limited? Do you think he would’ve ever been shadowing Biden like he does Trump and be given a DOGE-equivalent position to directly influence policy? No. Also, the snub occurred before all the Twitter stuff you mentioned.
Your second paragraph seems to be in response to someone else’s comment below. You didn’t respond to anything in my comment about the differences between Democrat and Republican economic policy and how that relates to Musk’s political shift. “Democrats loved him and threw money at him” is a vague nothing statement that fails to recognize anything specific about the different roles and scales of economic policy. Subsidies (Democrats) tend to function as helping to give businesses foundational legs and are often capped and/or need to be paid back (i.e. they aren’t an endless source of revenue/profit) whereas deregulation (Republicans) enables profit maximization by allowing businesses to act uninhibited. What are most billionaires, including Musk? Ego- and megalo-maniacs who have an insatiable appetite for money/power and hate having their desires inhibited. So which economic policy model do you think Musk stands to gain most from at this point? With his influence in Trump’s government, he’ll likely have opportunities to craft all sorts of policies that specifically benefit his interests: subsidies, tax cuts, deregulation, preferential contracts, etc. Just look up how much his wealth has already increased since the election.
Musk’s political plays are part of a broader agenda by techno-libertarian billionaires like Peter Thiel to destabilize and upend traditional institutions’ guardrails so that they can become uninhibited technocrat oligarchs. Thiel has explicitly stated that he doesn’t believe democracy is compatible with freedom and capitalism. Trump and Vance are simply functioning as tools to get these billionaire ghouls one [monumental] step closer to killing democracy for their version of “capitalistic freedom”.
Anyway, that’s all I’m going to say in this thread. I’ve already spent too much time talking politics here.
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Red Son
Participant“When Biden was president, he held a forum for all electric car manufacturers, but guess who was not invited? That’s right, Elon Musk”
A non-union company wasn’t invited to a pro-union summit. That is weird.
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TheNuschler
Participant^^^^^
Comes down to perception. Personally, I don’t think he’s a Nazi but the outcome of what I’d call a poorly chosen gesture at the wrong place in time definitely elicited emotion from people on the left and far right. I’m your typical run-of-the-mill American who tends to hate government, both its bloated ineffectiveness and increasing privacy infringements. Still, the guy seems to have quickly consolidated vast power economically and politically. This is potentially a big problem that could escalate quickly. If he does harbor some fascist sentiment (I do believe he does to a degree), buyer beware. Many things I agree with him on, HB1 visas for talent, big on engineering investment for students, and choosing the best available talent for critical jobs. America needs a full-scale reinvestment in education and innovation because we stand to lose standing in that critical piece we have excelled in for over a century.
He just needs to stop openly walking, talking, and acting like a Duck on his platform and in public. Get some wins with DOGE (if even possible) and talk about that.
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NorthernUte
ParticipantMuch like college football, I am trying my hardest to stay away from politics and overthinking them. I love our freedoms in America, but unfortunately they make it easy for people to be and remain divided. Not going to warrant Musks actions, however to be quite frank I don’t care as much as maybe I should about things like this that blow up in the media. Trump has said and done some ill advised and quite frankly, terrible things, but Biden pardoned his pedophilia filled family amongst many other terrible things. For good or bad, I try to vote for who will keep me alive. Selfish, I know, but if I’m sitting here telling myself that Kamala Harris is better suited to take us into a war(which is inevitable, at some point based on literally every shred of evidence in history) then I am fooling myself. Don’t like Donald, don’t like Kamala, do love life. **** the media because it separates everyone worse then is necessary.
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Anonymous
ParticipantI don’t like Biden and don’t support his pardons, but I always eyeroll when people insist on making vague accusations of liberals being pedophiles conveniently without acknowledging that Trump spent years cohorting with Jeffrey Epstein, is on the Epstein flight logs, has had Epstein victims accuse him of having sex with minors (aka rape), and appointed the judge who gave Epstein his sweetheart deal his Secretary of Labor (Alexander Acosta). Then there are Trump’s many extremely creepy sexual comments about Ivanka. And how about nominating sex trafficker Matt Gaetz for attorney general — someone so vile that not even the MAGA-captured GOP would back his nomination. There is sooo much denialism and projection when right-wingers make accusations of pedophilia.
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GameForAnyFuss
ParticipantYay, a political post. Our journey towards becoming utefans.net is nearly complete!
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Brettski
ParticipantWell that blew up. TDS is a hell of a drug. They are going to get a major fix for the next 4 years.
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SkinyUte
Participant“TDS is a hell of a drug. They are going to get a major fix for the next 4 years.”
This one is always hilarious to me.
– Trump: Says or does something stupid.
– Most people: “Wow, that was really stupid”
– MAGA: “TDS! TDS! YOU HAVE TDS! TDS!!!!”I would think it’s must be exhausting to have to twist yourselves into knots to defend whatever nonsense he spouts. Have fun with that, I guess.
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jshame17
ParticipantElon is full throated Nazi. Full stop.
Saying my heart goes out to you while holding his heart, AFTER 2 full heil-Hitler salutes, doesn’t mean a damn thing.
Oh, then he followed it up with this: he’s a nazi and those defending him need a good long hard look in the mirror. You’re spitting on over 400K soldiers that died to remove that POS from this earth. Anti-American trash…
Also, we’re supposed to buy the logic that he’s both the smartest man in the world, who has given dozens of speeches, but now he didn’t k own what he’s doing because he’s “autistic” as in implying he’s “retarded or mentally challenged” or something? That’s gross and puts negative light on the autistic community they do not need.
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The Miami Ute
Participant“Elon is full throated Nazi.”
I’m sorry but that’s just a stupid statement and really shows a tremendous ignorance of what National Socialism entails.
This is the national socialist philosophy summarized in 25 points. You tell me how many you think fit in with today’s political agendas:
1. We demand the unification of all Germans in the Greater Germany on the basis of the right of self-determination of peoples.
2. We demand equality of rights for the German people in respect to the other nations; abrogation of the peace treaties of Versailles and St. Germain.
3. We demand land and territory (colonies) for the sustenance of our people, and colonization for our surplus population.
4. Only a member of the race can be a citizen. A member of the race can only be one who is of German blood, without consideration of creed. Consequently no Jew can be a member of the race.
5. Whoever has no citizenship is to be able to live in Germany only as a guest, and must be under the authority of legislation for foreigners.
6. The right to determine matters concerning administration and law belongs only to the citizen. Therefore we demand that every public office, of any sort whatsoever, whether in the Reich, the county or municipality, be filled only by citizens. We combat the corrupting parliamentary economy, officeholding only according to party inclinations without consideration of character or abilities.
7. We demand that the state be charged first with providing the opportunity for a livelihood and way of life for the citizens. If it is impossible to sustain the total population of the State, then the members of foreign nations (non-citizens) are to be expelled from the Reich.
8. Any further immigration of non-citizens is to be prevented. We demand that all non-Germans, who have immigrated to Germany since the 2 August 1914, be forced immediately to leave the Reich.
9. All citizens must have equal rights and obligations.
10. The first obligation of every citizen must be to work both spiritually and physically. The activity of individuals is not to counteract the interests of the universality, but must have its result within the framework of the whole for the benefit of all Consequently we demand:
11. Abolition of unearned (work and labour) incomes. Breaking of rent-slavery.
12. In consideration of the monstrous sacrifice in property and blood that each war demands of the people personal enrichment through a war must be designated as a crime against the people. Therefore we demand the total confiscation of all war profits.
13. We demand the nationalization of all (previous) associated industries (trusts).
14. We demand a division of profits of all heavy industries.
15. We demand an expansion on a large scale of old age welfare.
16. We demand the creation of a healthy middle class and its conservation, immediate communalization of the great warehouses and their being leased at low cost to small firms, the utmost consideration of all small firms in contracts with the State, county or municipality.
17. We demand a land reform suitable to our needs, provision of a law for the free expropriation of land for the purposes of public utility, abolition of taxes on land and prevention of all speculation in land.
18. We demand struggle without consideration against those whose activity is injurious to the general interest. Common national criminals, usurers, Schieber1 and so forth are to be punished with death, without consideration of confession or race.
19. We demand substitution of a German common law in place of the Roman Law serving a materialistic world-order.
20. The state is to be responsible for a fundamental reconstruction of our whole national education program, to enable every capable and industrious German to obtain higher education and subsequently introduction into leading positions. The plans of instruction of all educational institutions are to conform with the experiences of practical life. The comprehension of the concept of the State must be striven for by the school [Staatsbuergerkunde] as early as the beginning of understanding. We demand the education at the expense of the State of outstanding intellectually gifted children of poor parents without consideration of position or profession.
21. The State is to care for the elevating national health by protecting the mother and child, by outlawing child-labor, by the encouragement of physical fitness, by means of the legal establishment of a gymnastic and sport obligation, by the utmost support of all organizations concerned with the physical instruction of the young.
22. We demand abolition of the mercenary troops and formation of a national army.
23. We demand legal opposition to known lies and their promulgation through the press. In order to enable the provision of a German press, we demand, that a: All writers and employees of the newspapers appearing in the German language be members of the race b: Non-German newspapers be required to have the express permission of the State to be published. They may not be printed in the German language c: Non-Germans are forbidden by law any financial interest in German publications or any influence on them and as punishment for violations the closing of such a publication as well as the immediate expulsion from the Reich of the non-German concerned. Publications which are counter to the general good are to be forbidden. We demand legal prosecution of artistic and literary forms which exert a destructive influence on our national life, and the closure of organizations opposing the above made demands.
24. We demand freedom of religion for all religious denominations within the state so long as they do not endanger its existence or oppose the moral senses of the Germanic race. The Party as such advocates the standpoint of a positive Christianity without binding itself confessionally to any one denomination. It combats the Jewish-materialistic spirit within and around us, and is convinced that a lasting recovery of our nation can only succeed from within on the framework: common utility precedes individual utility.
25. For the execution of all of this we demand the formation of a strong central power in the Reich. Unlimited authority of the central parliament over the whole Reich and its organizations in general. The forming of state and profession chambers for the execution of the laws made by the Reich within the various states of the confederation. The leaders of the Party promise, if necessary by sacrificing their own lives, to support by the execution of the points set forth above without consideration.
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AdamDudeAmi
ParticipantIt’s just a smokescreen for the billionaires to take all of our rights away while making the public distrust each other. They are moving generations of wealth away from the masses and centering themselves on the lust of power and control.
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DataUte
ParticipantYou ask if people have watched the video (I have) and then say others have made the same sign in still pictures. Have you watched those videos (I have). They are not making the same sign. Going from your chest and pumping out with the flat hand at an upward angle (Musk did, others did not) is the roman salute, a tribute to fascism, that Nazi’s adopted.
Musk is on the spectrum (they changed Asbergers to now be on the autism spectrum). It probably makes him who he is (different/brilliant? But quirky at the same time).
He did it twice and had to know the symbolism and even if he was throwing out his heart, he had to know how it would look. He intentionally provokes. At the same time, he has been an ally to Israel and I wouldn’t think he’s a Nazi or fall under those principles, but he has switched from Democrat to Republican to MAGA as he sees that he can be an oligarch, in an even weirder way than Russia, where Puton at least has the oligarchs stay out of the way of his politics.
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jshame17
ParticipantAlso, have you ever considered that he “supports” Israel because it’s an Apartheid State and he agrees with “cleansing” Gaza on white supremacy principles.
Classic enemy of my enemy, is my friend.
oh look, Musk doing mote Nazi stuff and speaking to the actual nazi resurgence party…-
The Miami Ute
ParticipantLOL…you’ve obviously never been to Israel if you think it’s filled with white supremacists. Half the Jews there look no different from the Palestinians and there are plenty of Palestinians who looks as European as anyone on this site.
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Utesbyfive
ParticipantHey! We’ve become UF.N. Cool.
You know fwiw, there are dozens of pictures online capturing various public figures, conservatives and liberals making the same motion. I guess they were all doing the NAZI salute. No other explanation for it. No sir.
Confirmation bias is a real intellect destroyer.
Don’t bother replying to me, I’m muting the misc category if this is what it’s going to be.
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Anonymous
ParticipantI really didn’t intend to keep this topic going, but I just learned of this open letter/post by Philip Low, a close friend and colleague of Musk’s for many years, that provides highly relevant insight on Musk’s personality and motivations that relate to his “gesture”. Here are links to the original facebook post and an archived copy:
Original facebook post / Archived copy
Fact-checking site Snopes’ take on the post
There are a few points in the post that jumped out at me as they basically describe exactly beliefs/claims I have made in my comments throughout this topic post:
4. He enjoys a good thrill and knew exactly what he was doing;
I. My point is that he is transactional rather than ideological
Note that the facebook post pre-dates this topic post by hours, but I only learned of the facebook post yesterday, so it did not have any influence on my comments here despite the above highlighted points having almost identical verbiage as some of my comments.
Make of this what you will; I just thought some would find it relevant and worth consideration. This will be my last comment on this topic post (this time I promise, lol).
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Brettski
Participant-
The Miami Ute
ParticipantI can’t believe that people are still posting on this thread.
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Tony (admin)
KeymasterAgree. I’m closing it!
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