RIP #22

Great Win by Men’s BB Tonight

Jekyl and Hyde team

  • Tony
    5 4

    No this doesn’t mean we keep Larry. 

  • ironman1315
    1

    How did that happen?

    • Tony
      3 3

      I doubt if even Larry knows. 

    • Because Jantunen came back. He’s critical to their success. He was gone the last four games, and it showed. His play might not show up in the box score, but he does things that can’t be chalked up. He plays really good defense and he gives Utah more low post scoring. Plus he also hustles and is extremely tough. And he gets offensive rebounds. Many of the 3’s Utah got in the second half came after Jantunen got the offensive rebound. His hustle and toughness is infectious and it makes the Utes a much better team. It’s no shock that they had won three straight, he leaves the team, and they don’t win again until he comes back. Utah may have won all four games he missed. They’d likely have won both the Stanford and Oregon games with him in the lineup. He’s like Alex Jensen. He does all the intangible plays you don’t see. He’s my favorite player on the team.

      • ironman1315
        1

        That doesn’t explain why we lost to crappy teams while he was in. 

      • Charlie
        1

        I agree.  Utah needs Jantunen to be competative.  Jones being out did not help.  He is not as critical as Jantunen but it is very good to have him in the rotation.

  • GameForAnyFuss
    5

    I’m just happy for the guys on the team. Years like this wear on a player, and they deserve to taste a little success.

    • astUTE
      1 1

      I’m happy for the kids as well.  As frustrated as I am with Larry, the coaching staff, and the general direction of the program, I certainly contintue to support and root for the kids.

  • UtahFanSir

    J&H: Understatement of the year.

  • UtahFanSir
    3

    But an awesome win. Terrific defense.  

    • Best game they’ve played all year. And I agree on the defense. It improved because of Jantunen. He really is an Alex Jensen clone. He’s the Utes’ most important player.

    • Johnny
      2

      Best defense I’ve seen this season.

  • Tony
    8 1

    Who TF is “Mickey Jantunen?”

    I know some of you like him, but I can’t stand Bill Walton.

  • astUTE
    2 1

    It was nice to have the game on a network that I get (for a change), but then of course, I had to immediately turn the sound OFF so I could enjoy it…  Treasure, Shmeasure!

  • He’s Utah’s toughest, most important player. He’s the catalyst that gives the Utes a chance in every game they play. He’s an Alex Jensen clone. Once I heard he was available for the game, my confidence in Utah’s ability to win massively increased. His toughness is just stellar. His defense is solid and his hustle gives the Utes more chances. He’s a scrappy player who gets offensive rebounds. He’s the ultimate glue guy that every team needs. Utah really missed him while he was gone those four games.

  • This was nice to see.

  • Utah5410
    7

    IMO

    Here is what is happening. Whit is amazing. Whit wants to win and has figured out in his mind and comfort level what makes the most sense and gives his team the best chance to win is 

    1. control the clock 

    2. no turnovers 

    3. great D and ST

    4. all in or in the way 

    Those are his non negotiable rules. And they work. He then gives the keys to Ludwig to run the offense. Whit doesn’t intervene or throw in his 2 cents (unlike the D which is his baby) unless Ludwig is violating those rules above. So Ludwig, old school as well. Does what he has to do.  He utilizes covey, kuithe and the RBs. Meanwhile the receivers get targeted 4/5 times a game. But block the rest of the time.  The team buys into the “All in or in the way mantra” during the year and then whit makes it clear that everyone needs to do what’s best for them at that point. 

    BT and Samson have been here for 4/5 years. They see the writing on the wall and understand that nothing is changing this year. Does utah have a chance to go to rose bowl. Yep. Would they help absolutely. Are they replaceable unfortunately under whites system. Yes. Vele can block and run little patterns like Samson did and Dixon. Although small is a legit deep threat like BT and can play in the slot. They want to play and be featured. 

    There are pros and cons to everything in this world. Whitt’s pros far far far out way his cons. But his biggest con is his ability to adapt. He will never be the Throw the ball a ton guy. It doesn’t make sense to him. He tried with TT and that was a disaster. Has long as Whitt is at the helm we will not have elite WR play. Add in that I don’t think that Holliday is that great either. This isn’t bad. It just is what it is. We have elite TE play and RB play. And enough guys to catch the ball if we can find a competent QB. 

    finally I don’t think Enis leaves this year. He never redshirted. I think he plays in 4 games this year sees if he is getting more love and touches. If he is he stays. Otherwise he will leave redshirt and have two years left to play somewhere else. Prob Would go to ASU or UA since that’s where he’s from. I think he’s The only one we should feed. It’s a problems but it is what it is.

  • MDUte
    4

    IMO, the WR Corp is the least important skills group for a Whitt team. Don’t get me wrong, I want the best talent we can get and dream of the day where we have mostly 4* dudes at every position on the field. But for a Whitt team, I’d much rather have highly rated RBs, DBs, & LBs than WRs.

    Obviously there’s no position more important than QB. But I also think a great QB can make mediocre WRs look amazing but not the other way around. It definitely sucks to lose both BT and Nacua but it’s not devastating. The younger guys will get an opportunity to step up and see the field earlier and we’ll be fine IMO. And maybe as the portal taketh away, it will yet again deliver another great WR talent or two. In any event, it’s next man up…go Utes!!!

    • Ghost of the HEB
      4

      WR may be least important for a Whit team, but they’ve been very important for teams that have won recent pac12 championships. If that’s the goal then we’ve gotta improve that facet.

      Charlie Brewer’s explosive 2019 season was certainly helped along by having NFL caliber WRs like Denzel Mims and R.J. Sneed on the outside.

      • MDUte
        1

        I’d love to have them but I don’t remember having any NFL WRs on either the 2018 or 2019 team and both teams could’ve/should’ve won the Conf Championship. You can say but they didn’t. And to that I’d say, it wasn’t because we were lacking higher talented WRs.

        • Tony
          5

          @mdute: Perhaps we would have won that championship 2 years ago if we had more talented WR’s. You remember the difference in the game was a freak pick 6 where our receiver tipped a pass and it was taken to the house by Washington. Perhaps that “elite” receiver doesn’t cause that turnover.

          • MDUte
            1

            Haha, I stand corrected!! Great point Tony…thanks!

            “It takes a big man to admit when he is wrong. I am not a big man.” – Irwin F. Fletcher

    • Onlyu
      30

      My two cents…Samson is a great kid. We actually kinda thought we’d lose him to Washington to join Puka a while back. He’s been between the 3rd and 6th option during his time here…isn’t afraid to go over the middle, is a committed blocker, even with his physical limitations but doesn’t have a skill level that isn’t easily replaced. He’s been injured a ton as well.

      After BT’s transfer we still had more WR’s in the mix next year than we had last year…Vele, Parks and O’Toole have tremendous upside. So does Kincaid though at TE. BT is a potential #1 when healthy but has yet to make it through 1 season without missing games. That’s hard to do as a WR.

      We’ll see about Cope but the plan was always to bring in 1-2 guys this Summer and that hasn’t changed. They’ll push forward one and maybe use the initial on somebody in the portal right now sooner than later because of the Samson news.

      Bottom line is we have 5 guys we know can catch the ball. Dixon, Enis, Covey, Kuithe and Fotheringham. You have Kincaid who will break out. Parks was lost understanding where he was supposed to be and will be better in year 2 and is a legit deep threat. Vele played some and will be better (and is physically way more talented than Samson).
      Smith?? We’ll see if he can make it out of the locker room without breaking something. That’s 8 guys plus Cope and the guy or two they bring in.

      Ludwig will continue to focus on getting Kuithe the ball, we’ll continue to be fairly balanced but run focused. We’ll have plenty pass catchers but need to figure out who will get them the ball.

      I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…the portal changes everything. My advice?? Don’t freak out and act like we can’t replace a kid who leaves…we’ll always find someone who believes they are being screwed by their current staff or that they’re missing their chance at fully utilizing their skills.

      • PhiladelphiaUte

        I thought O’Toole was a “mission” kid.  Will he be in Spring camp?

  • Ute2
    3

    This is insightful.

     

    if we’re trying to be quasi Wisconsin then we really don’t need 8 wideouts that can ball.  Too many mouths to feed.  I think we have 5 who can ball and maybe a transfer?  Maybe a surprise?

    that might be enough.  

    amd wisconson usually has a standout or two that they lean on, just not a whole stable..

    • Onlyu
      17

      All up to the QB position IMO. Never before have we had the talent or depth in that room…not even close so the upgrade there should lead to an upgrade at the WR position eventually regardless of whether or not we’re a run focused team. Have a guy (or guys) who can make throws and you’ll have plenty of kids that want to come catch the ball for a PAC12 team.

      • chinngiskhaan
        12

        You said the same thing about the qb room last year

        • Onlyu
          18

          And the statement was true…multiple 4 star recruits. Now you have 3 – 4 star recruits PLUS a 4 year starter in the Big 12. You also didn’t really have a good sample size with Rising. He’s damn good despite looking fairly average in his first half of college football

          • 2008 National Champ
            11

            247 has rated all of the transfers based on their current status as opposed to what they were perceived to be coming out of high school. All 5 of the transfers: Kaho, Brewer, Curry, Pledger, and Jackson would be low 3 stars per their analysis.

            2021 commits

            • Anfernee
              8

              Per my analysis I rate this a 10/10 on the Debbie Downer star rating system. 

            • MDUte
              2

              Looking at other teams’ transfers across the country and it’s pretty much the same story. Obviously things weren’t going well for the overwhelming majority of transfers or they wouldn’t have entered the portal in the 1st place. There are exceptions, like the top Tennessee transfers (3 of which landed at Oklahoma) where the firing of their head coach caused a mass exodus. But the updated rating appears to be based on their recent production or lack thereof. It doesn’t seem like a similar grading system to how their talent level is evaluated coming out of high school. It wouldn’t make sense that a kid could be graded at .96 high 4* and then somehow lost all of their talent from being on the bench for 1 or 2 years to drop to a grade of .82. But if someone understands it more clearly, please explain.

              • the ratings system are actually simple in nature. Each prospect is graded based on how quickly they can make an impact at the college level.

                When grading transfers, you’ve got more data to look at and not having meaningful stats at your previous school is a pretty telling data point. Jackson would be the exception as no one should fall that far for not playing in their true freshman year.

                As fans, we all want every player who puts on the uniform to play to an all-american level. But if we are also being realistic, there is a reason each of these kids transferred to Utah and I’m pretty sure it isn’t because they performed so well at their last school that they needed a new challenge.

                • EagleMountainUte
                  1

                  To be even fairer this has been a Covid year and all these little evaluations for clicks are fairly meaningless. This past season was unprecedented in Football since probably WW2.

                • It was a Covid year for everybody. Unless there is something specific that only the University of Utah dealt with, I tend to ignore that as a justification.

              • Charlie
                2

                I think it can be complex.  Clearly, many don’t work out going on to the next level.  However, a player can also not mesh with a particular scheme, maybe a coaching style isn’t reaching a guy, or simply a string of bad luck.  As often as a player can’t measure up are the cases of a change being everything a player needs to take off.  Sometimes a guy can be confident enough to let a first chance slip away but be driven enough to not let a second chance fail.  Each is it’s own case and it simply has to play out to see.  Our transfers have a wide range of possibilities.

  • Larry B

    Chances Nacua follows BT to ASU?

    It makes sense, IMO. 

  • D T
    4

    BT’ll get lost in shuffle w/the talent ASU already possessed & it’d be no different for SN….It’d be an unwise move for him.

  • Jake
    2

    Doesn’t make much sense, he would play even less there than he would here. But maybe his reasoning for leaving isn’t playing time.

  • Ghost of the HEB
    1

    Low

  • Distantute
    1

    Zero chance unless he walks on. Im guessing nacua will have a very hard time finding a landing spot and it wont be a p5 unless he walks on.

  • Northendzone Ute5
    1

    Didn’t Pukalani Nacua transfer to Fresno St.? I bet he will follow Pukalani, especially if it is a group of 5 team.

    • Jake
      1

      Puka is still at Washington. That was Ty Jones.

  • Puka Nacua. Darn auto correct.

  • I think it’s more likely he ends up at BYU

    • Jake

      He doesn’t seem like a BYU guy to me but I’m definitely no expert so who knows.

      • Central Coast Ute
        1

        His older brother went there and made it to the NFL. he’s also from Provo.

        I just don’t see why UW or ASU would be interested in Utah’s backup receiver.

  • Great1Ute
    3

    Timing of recent transfers

    I’m trying to understand the timing of the recent transfers.  Are there team meetings going on right now where players can guage potential playing time or how they might be used in the scheme this fall?  Have there been recent practices where they can see the quarterback talent (or lack of it)? 

    What is driving two receivers to bail right now, just a few weeks before spring ball?  To be clear, my question is about the timing of the decision to transfer.

  • Central Coast Ute
    1

    I’m not sure about meetings, but I’m pretty sure those players can gauge how they’re going to be used based on their own personal experiences.

  • noneyadb
    1

    Do to the lack of better incoming WR talent fans are left to scrutinize a young mans decision to better his own situation. Sad times.

    Wonder if the decision to continuingly playing Bentley over Lisk has had some lasting repercussions?

  • Trailgoat
    1

    Maybe its just time for a change for Samson and Utah. Utes will be fine at WR. There are plenty of 20 yard and less receivers on the team to fill his role. Getting Dixon back was huge. Vele and Kincaid have a lot more upside to fill Nacua’s role. Kincaid is almost a hybrid type WR that will make him hard to cover smaller DBs while trying to match up with Kuthie and Fother

    Again, seems interesting as a senior he was not chosen to be a captain or selected to the leadership council. Best of luck to the kid, he did a lot for Utah football as did Utah football for him believing in him even after his social media blunder. 

    • concerned
      2

      Also Conner O’toole.  A relative who attends practice and thinks money parks will be very good. But parks, Otooele  and Cope are very young. 

      • Trailgoat
        2

        Good catch (pun intended) :)! A lot of solid players to step in. I suspect WR recruiting will make a big jump next cycle as the new QBs step in. My chips are on JQJ at QB, he is a prototypical badass Utah football player. QB competition will be fun to watch.

        • Jake
          2 1

          If you’re betting on JQJ to win the job this year then be prepared to lose your money. Don’t get me wrong, he’s great talent, and will likely be very good in a couple years, but he needs to grow as a passer and get a year in the system. Rising has been with the team multiple years and knows the system and won the job last year, if he’s healthy, it’s his job likely. If he’s not healthy then Brewer is a 4 year starter who went to the Sugar Bowl who can step in. I don’t doubt that JQJ could put in the work and be the guy day one with his talent, I just wouldn’t bet on it.

          • Rising barely beat out Bentley and Lisk for the start. ***From what I remember. ****
            Now I am not saying Costelli and JQJ are better than them. I feel like hoping Utah improved is all people want.

            • Jake
              1

              We were hiding who our QB was for week one, there wasn’t a big 3 way battle that came down to the wire, it was always between Bentley and Rising. And Rising won the job a couple weeks before the season. They didn’t have much time because of Covid and Rising separated himself from the others.

  • EagleMountainUte
    1

    Take whatever is commonly known or the history of transfers and disregard it. I don’t think it is wrong to question what is going on but it is all new. Utah has had an awesome ramp up in recruit ing. Sez getting completed is going to attract more talent.