Possible Unpopular Opinion on Tavion Thomas

[leftyjace]

OK, the numbers speak for themselves. He was someone who scored a lot of touchdowns.
But I’ve seen posts on here classifying him as a top tier back, or one of the greatest in Utah history, and I just can’t get in line with that way of thinking.
First, he had a supremely superior OL season-before-last. They were making holes that I could run through, and I outweigh Tavion by a good hundred pounds and am half as fast. I think a lot of the success he experienced was because the line would have allowed anyone to succeed that season.
Second, Tavion always struck me as someone that absolutely needed that big of a hole to run through, because he had a hard time gaining Yards After Contact. If there’s a stat that proves me wrong, I’m happy to be incorrect, I really am.
But it always seemed to me that the first time he would get hit he would go down, even if it was a touch on an ankle.

As an aside, I think that he got a kind of big head from success in the ’21 season… and then when the holes weren’t quite as big, or practice wasn’t quite as easy because the DL had stepped up their game during practice, he got frustrated. IF that was the case, then couple that with the personal problems he experienced and it’s no wonder he drastically underperformed in ’22.

Am I alone here in thinking these things?

[EagleMountainUte]

People have ideas about running backs and what their job is: A lot say to get rushing yards, others still will say yards after contact, even more will say SCORING TOUCHDOWNS. I am here to tell you that those people are all wrong.
The one thing RB need to do is hold onto the ball. If your touch rate to fumbling is as high as TT you won’t be drafted. If you are the coach that drafts TT you are one of those morons above.

Now I cheered every time TT scored. But my ass puckered every-time he touched the ball. It was very enjoyable to see him score because it was relaxation for sure.

[UrbanLiar]

So he’s going to play for The Jets?

[tanute3]

Absolutely agree. He’s nowhere near Moss, Booker, White, etc. Tbh I always thought he had an odd running style – almost like he run too upright or something. Either way, his skill set isn’t in the same conversation as the Utah greats imo

[EagleMountainUte]

Doesn’t use his pads at the point of contact is that odd upright running he does. 

JJ also looked similar until he switched it on. Which to me shows it isn’t a coaching problem it is failure to listen problem. I guess you could argue that coaches failure to coach him. 

[AlohaUte]

Here’s my likely unpopular opinion. He quit on his team. He put himself before the team and I blame him more than any other for our struggling season. He is incredibly talented, arguably the most talented back in Utah history, I feel bad for him that he couldn’t keep it together enough to put himself in a better position for the NFL and he could have gone down as a Utah legend.

[Jake]

I would disagree that he’s anywhere near the most talented back we’ve had. He’s way too slow to be an every down back, and goes down way too easy for being ~6’3 230.

[Tony (admin)]

If we’re talking pure talent, Ty Jordan might very well have been the most talented back in Utah history. 

[2008 National Champ]

I’m conflicted on deuce-deuce. Not because he didn’t obviously have talent, but because all we got to see was a couple of games in a year where you really can’t draw any conclusions. I always expect Utah to have good running backs, even if I don’t know they are yet. But I’ve never had the expectation that every handoff could potentially be a house call.

While the potential was definitely there, I’m not going to pretend that there weren’t things to work on. He was loose with the football, needed to improve his blitz pickup, and needed to prove he could play at a high level through a full season against other teams at full strength. It would be disingenuous to say that he didn’t have the tool kit to become the best back in Utah history but it’s also not fair to elevate him over other guys who excelled in all facets of the game just based on such a small sample.

Was he Khalil Tate – shine bright for a couple of games and then be below average for the rest of his career – or “(Insert all-time great RB name here)”? We’ll just never know

[Rick]

He isn’t even top 5 of our most talented running backs.  He fumbles because he runs high and carries the ball low.  JJ had the same issue early on this year but he fixed it.  Tavion never did.  

[Jake]

He was a glorified short yardage back. His vision allowed him to hit the right holes to get into the end zone or the first down. Outside of that, he wastes his frame. He’s nearly 6-3 230 and goes down at any contact that isn’t a weak arm tackle. He never lowered his pads to punish a dude like Moss continually did. He’s also way too slow. After he gets 5 yards downfield he’s mediocre at best. He only averaged a little over 5 yards a carry and disappeared in big games. 3.7 ypc in the rose bowl, 3.5 in the pac championship, and 4.5 against Oregon the first time. And these were games we had a lot of offensive success. He also has a huge fumbling issue.

[Yergensen]

Said on here before 2022 season that TT’s great inside the tens but pedestrian between the tens. He rarely broke big runs, didn’t catch the ball well, didn’t pass pro well, fumble prone. Offense was also predictable with him on the field. It wasn’t a popular take.

Havent verified, but I have to think our red zone efficiency was never better than with TT in 2021. TT, oblock and Cam deserve credit for transforming our red zone and scoring offense that year.

[2008 National Champ]

My lasting memory of Thomas won’t be the big run against Stanford in ’21 or his blow the whistle TD signal. It will be the 6 or 7 times he got the ball inside the 5 against Florida and couldn’t convert. Sure he could run straight ahead when the hole was there but did he ever really make something out of nothing?

That Florida game was so bad that Ludwig felt he had to make that stupid Kuithe reverse call on the two-point play because he didn’t trust Thomas to get it done.

* Hyperbole alert: In actuality, Thomas had 3 carries from the 1 yard line on the first drive of the 3rd quarter. 0 yards, -2 yards, 0 yards. The second drive, Bernard ran it in from the 7 and then the Kuithe reverse got stuffed. On the third drive, Thomas got four yards from the 13 and then the last 4 for the TD. so he was 4 carries for 2 yards inside the 5 with a TD.

[NarfUte]

Pledger had the big run vs. Stanford (96yrds), so you can change that memory anyway. Thomas did have 4 tds that game tho 

[2008 National Champ]

Pledger had the 96 yard TD right before half. Thomas broke one earlier in the game for 58. Man that Stanford rush D was bad in 2021.

Stanford game box score

[Kirk Kettner]

He had one more fumble last year the Bernard on twice the carries. I don’t remember people calling MB fumble prone.

this year didn’t end up like we thought with TT, but let’s not act like he wasn’t incredible last season when he got a full workload.

[ProudUte]

I agree and disagree.

I agree that he is not a top-5 RB in Utah history.  Not close IMO.  However, he did set a record for rushing TDs in a season.  He had a very good season last year and I don’t think anyone should take that away from him.  He was a big part of our 2021 success.

That being said, he quit on the 2022 team and he hurt the team because of it.  What he did was unacceptable.  However, I believe he is a young man with some emotional issues.  I hope he can get things in his life worked out before it’s too late.

I wish him well.

 

[utefansince79]

He wasn’t there as we expected for most of this season which is a dissappointment.  But I hope that this young man who didn’t have both parents helping him for part of his life and has lost an aunt who helped raise him, makes future decisions that help get him on a path to success and happiness as I fear he has the potential to get on a path that will lead him in the wrong direction.   It’s up to him now. 

 

[Utesbyfive]

It’s all moot, he’s gone.

[UtahMan17]

tavion was fantastic for us in 2021, and a big time RB. He brought a special level of talent that raised our ceiling that year. Surprised so many people think he was overrated. He made guys miss routinely, and was one of the highest in the nation in yards after contact. Be disappointed in him all you want for how it Al turned out, but he was really damn good for one of the best stretches in Utah football history, can’t take that away from him.

 

[Rick]

I reasonate with those who have a hard time with Tavion because he quite on his team. I agree with a few of the warts many of you have pointed out but one strength I admired was his patience between the 20s. I thought he waited for blocks to set up as well as any back I’ve seen come through through the program. That’s a talent/skill I began noticing with JJ as he got more and more comfortable this season.

[Kirk Kettner]

There is a stat that proves you wrong.

778 of his 1106 yards were after contact.

[leftyjace]

Thank you! That’s good information.
Was that for the ’21 or the ’22 season, or both?
If for one of the individual seasons, how does that compare to the other season?

[Kirk Kettner]

That was for 21. For 22, it was 419 yards after contact on 676 total yards. 62%

 

[pedro]

We talking the 2021 TT or the 2022 TT?

for the 2021 TT, I would put up some sort of argument as when TT ran, he ran hard, with purpose (anger) and determination.  That TT HAD the potential to make something from raw talent.

The 2022 TT was a shell of a man with no clear direction of what he wanted or needed to do on or off the field.  

In the end your opinion is niether unpopular or wrong.  To me, most of off, it’s just a sad incident of mental health for someone who didn’t know how to get help and those arouind him who wanted to help, but didn’t know how.

[Utah]

Man oh man. I’ve stated over and over I get why people would choose Booker, Moss or Johnson over Williams and Thomas. 

We don’t need to knock someone down to lift someone up. 

That being said, Joe Williams averaged a hair under TWO HUNDRED YARDS A GAME. No Ute has sniffed that. 

And Thomas’ TD’s. 

Look. I get anyone who doesn’t choose Williams or Thomas. But you give me those two? Good lord, I bet I win. Over two TD’s a game from Thomas and 200 yards on the ground from Joe?

Good luck to you. 

[Rick]

You take those two and I will take Eddie Johnson and Booker and beat your ass! 🙂

[utefansince79]

Eddie Johnson one of the few (if not the only) Ute athletes to get “five” from a Cougar cheerleader after scoring a touchdown.