Urban Meyer

[Johnny80]

Has anyone seen the news on Ohio State/Urban Meyer? If you have what are your thoughts? 

[Tony (admin)]

Just barely heard something on the radio a few minutes ago. Need more details.

[Brettski]

Hey Tony QQ – how do I block someone like Daniel Walter?  Asking for a friend.

[EagleMountainUte]

At Florida during the title run and Aaron Hernandez etc etc. I think he had something like 50% of the team in some sort of criminal trouble. When Hernandez was a freshman he sucker punched someone in the ear and ruptured his ear drum. 

Urban has a different idea of morals than I do  and this news if true doesn’t surprise me. 

[Johnny80]

I remember hearing about how many Florida players had served jail time or been in criminal court. 

You would think that with how much of a staunch catholic he is he would demand a more from his players and especially his staff. Accusations like that  are quite serious and should not be overlooked or hidden. 

[EagleMountainUte]

Well he had Tebow who is a poster child for what College Athletics should be. It all balanced out?  I am all for forgiveness and giving kids chances.  Urban seemed to give kids who never deserved a chance multiple chances so he could win. 

[Johnny80]

So true BGU. Forgot about that side of him. He did do things like that. Great point. 

[EagleMountainUte]

The most alarming thing to me is people will defend him and he will most likely get hired again. 

[TheJuggernaut]

If Ohio St fires him Notre Dame would hire him in a minute.

[Ute Bc]

I doubt that.  This is looking like a Joe Paterno moment…

[EagleMountainUte]

Paterno’s will always be much worst imo. AD, President of the school covering it up for years. Letting him use the facilities to lure at risk kids?  That really proved to me all of these “major” schools will do ANYTHING to win. Not shocked at all by anything anymore. 

[TheJuggernaut]

Paterno covered for Sandusky and let him abuse kids at Penn St football facilities for literally a decade. Obviously we don’t have all the facts re Urban but I think the Paterno situation was much worse.
Urban had plenty of issues at Florida, the article below states he had 31 players arrested from 2005-2010, yet Ohio St couldn’t hire him fast enough.
If Urban “resigns” and Notre Dame underachieves Kelly will be gone and UM will be coaching again next season.

In recent years, though, another number has been affixed to the Meyer era. That number is 31, as in, at least 31 arrests of Florida’s football players from 2005 to 2010.

Meyer at Florida

[BulgieUte]

You have a very distorted view of the goodness of Catholics. Look no further than the history of that church, rampant evil throughout.

 

[Ute Bc]

It’s a tough one.  Fact is that he has NOT been proven guilty, however, where there is smoke there is fire.  Domestic abuse is always tough because, like in this case, the alleged victim is often unwilling to press charges.  I would err on the side of the victim but that is not always the correct thing to do.

Edit: I just saw the text messages between the victim and Shelley (Urbans wife). He should be fired. Disgusting.

[gUrthBrooks]

What do they say? Do you have a link?

[Ute Bc]

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2018/7/23/17602674/ohio-state-zach-smith-fired-urban-meyer

[EagleMountainUte]

Facebook post McMurphy

[HoosierUte]

If it is true that Urban’s inner circle pressured her to drop the charges and if that can be tied back to a directive from Urban then yeah, he has got to go. 

If the facts are that he knew about it but didn’t really do anything, or took the husbands word? I don’t know. It isn’t a good look, but I don’t know if its a fireable offense. 

[Puget Ute]

Not only that, but he should also face state charges for tampering with a witness.

[gUrthBrooks]

What happened is my question? I’m searching the internet and cannot see what the allegations claim. Hard to give an opinion without knowing the details.

[EagleMountainUte]

Literally type Urban Meyer into Google. 

https://www.google.com/search?q=urban+meyer&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS763US763&oq=Urba+Meyer&aqs=chrome.1.69i57j0l3.3789j1j7&hl=en-US&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

[TheJuggernaut]

WR coach abusing his wife as far back as 2009, she was friends with Shelley, Urban claiming he didn’t know. The coach not only should have been canned, he should be in prison.

[Puget Ute]

If the stuff in McMurphy’s column is found to be true, then he may very well get fired.

However, Mike McIntyre covered up stuff at CU that should have got him fired and he is still employed, so who knows.

[EagleMountainUte]

The sad part is he only will get fired because he got caught covering s**t up. Not for the incident itself which is largely the case now days on these things. 

[UtMtBiker]

Why is that sad? The brushing under the rug IS the incident.  He’s not accused of any crimes, but he failed to protect someone which he is required to do in a leadership position at a school that accepts federal funding.  That is title IX for you.  The school has a huge liability here with PSU and Michigan State paying out nearly a half billion dollars in two scandals.  I don’t see him surving this one.  

[sweetgrass]

I’d argue that Urban Meyer deserves the benefit of the doubt.

Not because of his connection to Utah, but because these situations can be so sketchy and they never seem to be simply just black and white.

From what I’ve read, it sounds to me that Shelly Meyer tried to help the victim. Ultimately it’s the victims responsibility to report the abuse, why on earth didn’t she? Especially if it started in 2009.

It’s also possible that the victim asked the Meyers not to report it. If a friend asked you not to that would be difficult to betray that trust. Throw in the fact that there were children involved, finances and possible spousal abuse the other way, it sounds like a messy situation all the way around.

Urban’s character certainly has been questioned in the past, but I’ve never heard anyone attack Shelly’s. I think there is more to this. I can’t imagine both of them would be stupid enough to cover something like this up. Maybe I’m wrong, but I wouldn’t be too quick to judge.

[Ute Bc]

I think in this case, however, it is being reported that Shelley Meyer had people ask the victim to not report it.

A few days after Zach’s 2009 arrest, Courtney said two of Meyer’s closest friends – Hiram de Fries and Earle Bruce – asked her to drop the charges. Bruce is Zach Smith’s grandfather, de Fries is Meyer’s “life coach.”

[UteThunder]

So Urban should be fired because of something his wife might have done?

The bottom line on this case: The victim is an adult. It is her responsibility, and hers alone, to report the abuse. Unless Urban threatened the victim or otherwise prevented her from contacting the police, then he should NOT be fired.   

[Ute Bc]

He sent his friend and life coach to convince her not to file charges!  Two separate people. 

[UteThunder]

He? You said it was Shelley who sent them . . . ?

And I don’t care how many people he or she sent. Unless those people threatened her or harmed her in some way to keep her from going to the police, then who cares? She is an ADULT WOMAN! She isn’t a helpless child.

The responsibility for reporting this is 100% on her. If she didn’t get help from the police, then she has nobody to blame but herself.

[Dan]

Yeah, you really don’t get it. They put football ahead of morality.   Great job victim blaming though.  

[UteThunder]

Sorry, but that isn’t victim blaming. Nowhere did I say it was her fault she was allegedly abused. Shame on you for accusing me of that. 

As for the role she played in not reporting the abuse she suffered AS AN ADULT, that responsibility falls squarely on her shoulders and it is ridiculous to insinuate that anyone else is responsible for it.

[Dan]

First, go find all the facts.  Second, read your messages.   Third, understand that you are victim blaming.   Fourth, come back and tell me how hard it would be to go to the police (yes, even as an adult) in a situation where the program is telling you not to go. Fifth, realize you probably have no idea why you are taking about.  

[Dan]

Oh and shame on you for not knowing what victim shaming is and thinking you are not part part of the problem.  

[Dan]

I really hope you don’t have any daughters too.  

[UteThunder]

Hahahahahahahahaha!!! Are you kidding me?

First, is it victim SHAMING or victim BLAMING you are accusing me of?

Second, you have all the facts in this case? Ha!

Third, Victim blaming is a devaluing act where the victim of a crime, an accident, or any type of abusive maltreatment is held as wholly or partially responsible for the wrongful conduct committed against them. Again, NOWHERE did I blame the victim for what happened to her. Your reading comprehension and/or understanding of what victim blaming is severely lacking.

Fourth, reporting abuse is never easy but she is an adult who had no problem reporting the abuse to the other coaches’ wives. Why couldn’t she just as easily go to the police? Because she was asked not to? Well, then I guess she CHOSE to not have help from the police. It isn’t the responsibility of other people to report her alleged abuse for her.

Fifth, unless you are one of the involved parties, realize I likely know as much about this as you do.

LMFAO that you think YOU know what victim blaming is when it is blatantly obvious that you do NOT.

[Dan]

Yes, I can read.  Reread the definition of victim blaming and get a clue dude.  I can’t believe you feel the need to defend someone in this situation.  Why is that?  

[Dan]

Oh, please continue to defend your position!  Dig your ditch as someone who supports sports over morality, women are wrong for not reporting abusive behavior and the ability to lack empathy for an abused person.  Yay you!

[UteThunder]

And you think women are right for not reporting abusive behavior? WTF?

[Dan]

Wow, you just made me understand who you are and what you believe.  You are despicable.  Do you hate women?

[UteThunder]

No, I love women and that is why I think it is the right thing for them to do to seek out help and self-advocate if they were ever to be abused. You’re the one who seems to have a problem with me thinking it is wrong for a woman to NOT report her abuse. 

“Dig your ditch as someone who supports sports over morality, women are wrong for not reporting abusive behavior and the ability to lack empathy for an abused person. Yay you!” – Daniel Walter

Clearly you think it is the right thing for a woman to do to not report abuse. SMH

You are seriously sick.

[Dan]

Wow, really.  You are the last person I would want defending a woman.  Way to misconstrue what I say. What would your mother think about your comments?   

[UteThunder]

My mother would agree with me that it is the right thing to do for a woman who is being abused to report her abuser and pursue prosecution to the fullest extent of the law. But I guess some people just aren’t raised that way. Sucks to be you.

[UteThunder]

No, you show me where I said the victim in this case is to blame for the abuse she suffered. Come on, quote me. You can’t do it because I didn’t say it. In other words, I’m not victim blaming. 

I’m not defending anyone here. What I am doing is saying that it is the responsibility of an adult who is the victim of a crime to get help for themselves. It is nobody else’s responsibility. And because it is her responsibility, nobody should lose their job over this except for her abuser who already has. 

I can’t believe you feel the need for people who committed no crime to be punished. Why is that?

[Dan]

It is hard for you to read.  

[ironman1315]

It’s possible that Urban aided and abetted by giving “comfort and aid” if he directed the victim to have the charges dropped. And, dude, I have seen people in abusive situations, it messes with your head, so much so it is almost impossible to take actions on your own. You need a hefty support network. And when that network turns around and tells you to drop it, it’s bad news. Urban Meyer, if he did what it looks like he did, needs to be hung out to dry.

You really are blaming the victim here, not for the abuse but for its continuance.

[UteThunder]

No, I’m not blaming the victim for any part of the abuse. The only thing it could be argued I’m “blaming” her for is the fact that she didn’t pursue charges against her abuser. She seems to think it was Urban’s and the rest of the coaching staff’s responsibility to report him and pursue charges and possibly even to punish him. That is not their responsibility. Speaking strictly from a right/wrong perspective, yes, maybe Urban and the rest of the coaching staff could have and should have done more to support her. BUT, legally they have no obligation to do anything for her.

As Roy Rangum said below, in a case like this, there’s not much you can do for a person in this type of situation until they are ready to help themselves.

[Chidojuan]

Regarding the victim blaming comments from @atoute

[Dan]

Hope you don’t have any daughters as well.   

[Chidojuan]

Twin girls actually, and I’ll be teaching them logic instead of rhetoric.

[Dan]

And that abuse is their fault for not reporting it.  Good on you

[Chidojuan]

[ironman1315]

Can we stop this three way?

[Dan]

No, because defending spousal abuse is not defendable.  If it makes you feel uncomfortable, leave. 

[ironman1315]

No. And here’s the thing. I read each reply. It was nothing more than a dick measuring contest. It was a totally circular argument. It was long since pointless. And, here’s an idea, don’t be a total dickhead to someone trying to make sure this board doesn’t turn into a massive circle jerk of guys talking past each other but arguing the same s**t ad nauseam. I came here to avoid that.

So, I must ask again, can we stop this “debate.” If you want, I can declare you the winner.

[Dan]

You are so wrong and aligned with the people I am arguing against.  You really don’t understand.  I am so far away from measuring my dick with those people.  Take a moment and read my comments and then realize I am defending abused women and standing establishment that believe sports trump any stupid/sexist/abusive/etc action you take.  Wake up dude. Sports don’t trump real people. 

[ironman1315]

Ok. Here’s the deal. I am not aligned with s**t. I haven’t articulated any position except one. End a debate that had already run its course. It makes a board toxic and I don’t want to deal with another toxic Ute sports board.

Now, here is my position, just so that you don’t go trying to assume some bull s**t. If these allegations are true, Urban needs to be canned and never work in college football again. If it is true that this is the tip of the iceberg, it seems that he should be subject to criminal sanctions. And if any other coach is doing it, they need to be rooted out of the system, after a full and fair investigation.

Note, my use of the word if is not meant to imply I don’t believe the victim here. My use of the word if is to show that while I have read the accusations I do not for 100% certain know if these are true. I am not even certain if it is more likely than not that these are true, though I suspect they are. My use of the word if is to convey that, as of this early stage, we, the denizens of UteHub, don’t know what’s true and what isn’t.

[Dan]

Explain why you are defending UM and let’s not use dumb ass memes. 

[Chidojuan]

Just pointing out logical fallacies, not defending anyone.  And you’re right @ironman1315, I’m done.

[Dan]

I love how some people use their ‘intellect’ to defend immorality and just being wrong.  

[ironman1315]

You know, it is entirely possible to make arguments, even make passionate arguments, without resulting to childish debating tactics.

[Dan]

Sorry reality and reason are childish to you.  Keep defending the guy that supported winning over reporting spousal abuse.  You are a team winner. 

[ironman1315]

See, this is exactly what I am talking about. I have made no positions. Made no statements about anything, but you oh glorious knight, come in and start casting aspersions upon my character because I asked to end a debate that should have ended about 10 posts before I stepped in and made a reasonable request.

Also, go read my statement, you will find that I am no friend of Meyer or his actions in this scenario, if true.

[Dan]

Go get laid…..yeah, you didn’t make any thoughts made.  

[ironman1315]

I made a position about you. That you need to calm down and relax. Would you have preferred it if I said go smoke a joint? Also, you do know about things like metaphors and colloquialisms where the words being used aren’t meant to be taken literally but to be taken figuratively. In this case, “go get laid” was meant to convey the message that you need to calm down and step away from this board.

[ironman1315]

Also, here is my position for the underlying discussion about Urban Meyer, just to make sure you see it.

Now, here is my position, just so that you don’t go trying to assume some bull s**t. If these allegations are true, Urban needs to be canned and never work in college football again. If it is true that this is the tip of the iceberg, it seems that he should be subject to criminal sanctions. And if any other coach is doing it, they need to be rooted out of the system, after a full and fair investigation.

Note, my use of the word if is not meant to imply I don’t believe the victim here. My use of the word if is to show that while I have read the accusations I do not for 100% certain know if these are true. I am not even certain if it is more likely than not that these are true, though I suspect they are. My use of the word if is to convey that, as of this early stage, we, the denizens of UteHub, don’t know what’s true and what isn’t.

[GameForAnyFuss]

If Ohio State is anything like U of U, employees are required to report alleged abuse if they become aware of it, even if they don’t know whether it really happened or the victim doesn’t want to. So urban is probably violating a major clause in his employment contract at minimum. He’s done. 

[Stone]

To slightly correct Ute BC, the allegation is that Urban asked people to ask the victim not to report it. That was not Shelley’s doing.

I think there are two primary things at play:

(1) Should Urban Meyer have reported his assistant coach to proper authorities (maybe campus authorities) when he heard allegations of domestic abuse? Some would say definitely required by Title 9, campus policies, moral duty, etc.. Others would say that it is a private matter that should be handled by police/family, not Urban’s responsibility to report something he has no personal knowledge about (i.e., cannot verify accuracy).

(2) Did Urban lie when he told media that he had no idea about the domestic abuse alllegations until recent months? The text message exchanges between the alleged victim and Urban’s wife show that Urban’s wife knew about the allegations for years. Is it plausible that she did not tell Urban? Perhaps, but seems unlikely that his wife would not tell him that his assistant coach’s wife claims the assistant coach is abusing her.

 

[Puget Ute]

Reports now say that he was put on paid leave.  He is probably done.

[Puget Ute]

Now maybe he will finally have time to teach his son how to throw a curveball.

[KiYi-Ute]

Urban Meyer is now on THE paid administrative leave.

[Tony (admin)]

LOL

[Dan]

This is not funny.  UM’s morality has been question for a long time.   If you defend him or blame the victims, F U. The guy has made questionable decisions for the benefit of winning and I hope his career ends now despite what he did at Utah.  He is someone to despise and has no morality. 

[ironman1315]

Dude, go get laid. Tony wasn’t defending s**t. Just stop. You win. You are the most virtuous of us all.

[Dan]

No, this is not funny nor defensible.  Let’s all be strong men and women and stand up against this bulls**t.  These people were employees of OSU And totally screwed up for winning football games.   

[ironman1315]

Who ever said it was? The joke was clearly making fun of THE saying “THE Ohio State University.” It wasn’t mocking the victim, supporting the violence, or even endorsing violence.

[Dan]

“….,get laid.”   Really, yeah, that’s the problem man.   Because I am mad that I am not having sex so I come to this board to call out other men for their dumb ass beliefs about spousal abuse.  You have me figured out!!!  I feel bad for you for believing that and any relationship you have with a women.  My wife told me to leave this s**t and maybe I should.   Most of the people on this thread are despicable for not calling out their peers.  

[ironman1315]

Yeah. That’s clearly what I meant. You got me all figured out. Please leave, I deal with enough people in my day job that misrepresent things I don’t need to deal with it from you.

#byefelcia

[Dan]

Hey, there are times for jokes.  This is not clearly a time.  If you can’t understand that defending people who make light of or defend spousal abuse is not a time to joke around or defend, you have a low morality set.  Sorry, that’s the truth.  

[ironman1315]

Point to anywhere in Tony’s one word three letter reply or even KiYi’s post that shows that they are defending what Urban did or what UT is saying? I’ll wait.

[Dan]

ANY response that makes this situation laughable is not defendable.  Try to prove otherwise. 

[ironman1315]

Don’t change the goal posts on me, Dan. This was not making light of the situation, at all. It was mocking a stupid phrase. And, at most, it was mocking Urban Meyer for being a complete douchenozzle.

[Dan]

So……

[Dan]

Admittedly, you seem to be reasonable which begs why you can’t call in to question some of our peer’s posts.  

[Dan]

Plus I have misconstrued Tony’s post.  Look at that!   A person realizing he was wrong!  

[ironman1315]

1) the time to reply to most of UT’s posts was long past. And the discussion had devolved into name calling. I asked for that to end. I did point out how he was so very wrong in his most recent post though.

2) JFF is a part-time troll. I make it a habit not to respond troll posts.

[Dan]

I like you.  You are reasonable and I am sorry is any assumptions I made were incorrect.  

[ironman1315]

Not a problem. Things can get heated, particularly on subjects like this. I apologize for my own insults I tossed your way.

[Dan]

Now you called me by my name.  Do we know each other?

[ironman1315]

No. It’s the name under your profile pic if you’re using the recent posts look like I do.

[KiYi-Ute]

@atoute — my intent was not to victim blame, or detract from her story. Her accusations are serious and should be taken as such and fully investigated. My feeling is that where there is smoke, there is fire and in this particular case there is an awful lot of smoke. Anyone who aided/enabled her husband to keep abusing her should be held fully accountable.

I was merely making fun of OSU for having a dumb catchphrase. It’s Urban’s football program, and he’s responsible for everyone underneath him, just like any boss should be held accountable for their employee’s actions. If he knew about the alleged abuse and did nothing, that speaks to his character and OSU should absolutely fire him for not aligning on a moral level. I’m no lawyer, so I’m not sure if there are other grounds that they could include in his termination — or if any criminal charges could be brought.

Anyway, I was just trying to poke fun at a phrase and an administration. Sorry if it came off as anything else.

[Roy Rangum]

So, I’m curious to see how all the details come together on this, and it is quite possible that Urban is in the wrong and will be fired, but I’m also still somewhat sympathetic at this point to Urban Meyer as well based on a prior experience (that is somewhat relevant to the “victim blaming” card being thrown around).

When I was younger and relatively newly married, I found out someone I knew was in a very physically abusive relationship (like fearing for her life abusive). Myself, my wife, and some friends hatched a plan to rescue this woman from this relationship which included flying her out of state to stay with my parents, etc. She seemed on board initially, but then backed out at the last minute and ended up staying with the guy. When I looked into it further, that was the moment that I realized there was literally jack crap I could do for her until she was at a point where she was ready to do something for herself. Unless she’s willing to press charges, calling the cops on the guy does nothing. And as she had already rebuffed our plan to try and “rescue her”, I felt pretty stuck. She ended up staying with the guy for quite a while and she even became suicidal at one point. But then many years later she finally broke free on her own and seems to have not looked back. Now, don’t get me wrong. Abuse beats you down and makes you feel like nothing, so I am completely sympathetic towards an abused person not reporting the abuse. However, I also feel sympathetic to those around the abused person, because as I experienced, there’s honestly not much you can do for them until they’re ready to accept that help.

So was Urban Meyer really supposed to fire an employee of his based on 2nd hand allegations, particularly when the spouse may not have been at a point where she was ready to break free / press charges? I’m not so sure on that. However, if it comes to light that Urban Meyer really did pressure the victim into not pressing charges in order to protect his football team, then I think that’s a different story. But again, I’m still waiting to see what further investigation yields and will withhold judgement until that time.

[UteThunder]

^^^^This is the correct answer.^^^^

[Dan]

Wrong AH. 

[deleted]

“Someone I knew” and “an employee” are two VERY different relationships. You’re right there was probably little you could do. Not the case with UM. Yes, UM was supposed to find out what happened and not trust the accused or the accuser’s denials. How do those denials look now?

As an HC, you cannot have direct reports suspected of DV. Zero tolerance. It’s not just your circle, it’s the students, the former students, and the thousands upon hundreds of thousands out there who hold it close. That’s what they sign up for. UM clearly doesn’t care about that. 

It’s what makes KW such a cut above the rest. He’s been here so long and never a sniff of scandal. He’s the best coach out there. 

[noneyadb]

If the Colorado Coach didn’t get canned I highly doubt Meyer will. 

[Dan]

Do you try to post content that will anger everyone?!?  

[Utah]

What about what he posted makes you angry? 

[Dan]

Reread his posts. 

[Dan]

Yeah, no. You are a glorious piece of s**t poster. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Dan]

You can still go away